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Post by Derzis on Apr 27, 2017 2:56:36 GMT
?? You described a way of movement with swordplay. I'm just asking for a video showing people moving the way you describe in a sword fight. I'm not trying to learn it, just see a demonstration or example of the kind of movement you describe. Are you saying there are no recordings of anyone moving the way you describe? You have offered an interpretation. I'm asking for an example on video. That's pretty standard stuff. Check whatever hachidan doing katas you want on internet for iaido. Or any 7-8 dan kendo fight, you will see there a lot of hips action. There are no free fights in JSA to point them to you. The real source is a dojo with a good sensei. And just for the record, one thing is to hear about a thing, another thing is to do it consistently during the training, and a lot other thing to make it a habit.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Apr 27, 2017 3:00:40 GMT
Go outside and move hip first and tell me you will step without pushing in any way. Been there, done that. Just because you don't understand how it's done doesn't mean it can't be done. Rather than just bleating "stupid", "impossible", "can't be done", stop and fix your understanding. All you are doing is showing that you don't understand what is being discussed. Go on your knees and try to lift your leg with that movement, hip first. You will not! Why go on your knees? Do you have a fondness for strawmen?
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Post by Derzis on Apr 27, 2017 3:14:41 GMT
Read your point number 1) again, the one you wrote on page 10 on this topic. Is plenty of hands-on experience there. I use kneeling to eliminate another hinge-like joint to make your point 1) stupid and impossible without "reasonable dout".
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Apr 27, 2017 3:45:27 GMT
Read your point number 1) again, the one you wrote on page 10 on this topic. Is plenty of hands-on experience there. I use kneeling to eliminate another hinge-like joint to make your point 1) stupid and impossible without "reasonable dout". So, just a pointless strawman.
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Post by Cosmoline on Apr 27, 2017 5:49:05 GMT
Yeah I don't understand what he's even saying apart from hips are important (obviously true in any martial art). Your explanation made sense and had plenty of detail.
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Post by Derzis on Apr 27, 2017 11:32:18 GMT
Read your point number 1) again, the one you wrote on page 10 on this topic. Is plenty of hands-on experience there. I use kneeling to eliminate another hinge-like joint to make your point 1) stupid and impossible without "reasonable dout". So, just a pointless strawman. You push your hips in the direction you want to move right before you push your foot in the ground to start whatever technic you want. It's a 10th of the second between these two. And this is the way japanese built their martial arts for centuries. Saying what you said, shows your knowledge. Your hips PULL nothing. They put you on target. The single way you can get a slide from the hips movement is when you do a sitting kata. Strawmen exercise to learn how to use your hands and hips without too much leg involvement. But you know better like always, since you have a lot of experience with JSA. Cosmoline, is normal to not understand when you know nothing about a specific subject.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Apr 27, 2017 11:56:02 GMT
Why continue to bleat "impossible!" when you can easily try it for yourself and find that it is possible? The single way you can get a slide from the hips movement is when you do a sitting kata. Slide? Can't you read? Another attempt at a strawman, or just continuing to misunderstand? Either way, it isn't a useful argument. But you know better like always, since you have a lot of experience with JSA. Talking about stepping in general, not about JSA. Hasn't it occurred to you that people can actually move in ways not usually done in Japanese martial arts?
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Post by Derzis on Apr 27, 2017 12:04:44 GMT
Why continue to bleat "impossible!" when you can easily try it for yourself and find that it is possible? The single way you can get a slide from the hips movement is when you do a sitting kata. Slide? Can't you read? Another attempt at a strawman, or just continuing to misunderstand? Either way, it isn't a useful argument. But you know better like always, since you have a lot of experience with JSA. Talking about stepping in general, not about JSA. Hasn't it occurred to you that people can actually move in ways not usually done in Japanese martial arts? 1. In japanese or Chinese MA in which they have the roots hip pulls poo. Telling someone that using hips in a technic slows you down is BS at any level of understanding the mechanics of a technic. This applies in GENERAL. 2. No, it didn't. The entire subject was Musashi writtings related. You talk about inside and outside without understanding that inside the Japanese are empty feet - this should have been the first indication that things might be different. And now I let you with your general generalities about what Musashi wrote in general
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Apr 27, 2017 12:13:33 GMT
Telling someone that using hips in a technic slows you down is BS at any level of understanding the mechanics of a technic. So, you didn't understand what I wrote. "Using hips in a technique slows you down" isn't what I wrote. Go back and read it. And try to understand it. Did you try the exercise?
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Post by Cosmoline on Apr 27, 2017 16:56:39 GMT
You have a tendency to revert to what I call the "Mysteries of the East" logical fallacy when debating these things. When pressed for practical specifics, you claim it's impossible without years in the dojo. If the instruction in the source is to walk normally, you ought to be able to explain that concept to a lay audience with some detail. Even if they won't be able to do it, you can explain it with words and video.
In this case, I understand Timo's descriptions and did it myself. But I'm not sure what your counter-argument actually is. So that's why I was asking for some kind of video showing why you're right and he's wrong. I don't know who's correct. I'm just trying to visualize the contrasting movements in my head, that's all.
I did. It's pretty nifty.
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Post by jammer on Apr 27, 2017 21:00:45 GMT
What does it mean to push forcefully from the heel? Hi "Pushing forcefully from the heel" is tied in with "raising the toes", it is a way of moving forward quickly.. The other way of moving is whilst slashing, parying etc and is to altenate the feet (in the manner of walking). According to go rin no sho.
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Post by jammer on Apr 27, 2017 21:17:38 GMT
?? You described a way of movement with swordplay. I'm just asking for a video showing people moving the way you describe in a sword fight. I'm not trying to learn it, just see a demonstration or example of the kind of movement you describe. Are you saying there are no recordings of anyone moving the way you describe? You have offered an interpretation. I'm asking for an example on video. That's pretty standard stuff. Just let me know what youre after cosmo, and ill do my best to link to. Youve always been very forthcoming with videos. Let me know what technique youre after and i will try to help.
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Post by Cosmoline on Apr 27, 2017 21:39:14 GMT
I'm trying to understand the disagreement between Derzis and Timo. I did some of the movements Timo describes, but don't really understand the differences about the use of the hip.
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Post by jammer on Apr 27, 2017 22:05:52 GMT
I'm trying to understand the disagreement between Derzis and Timo. I did some of the movements Timo describes, but don't really understand the differences about the use of the hip. Ah, i havent followed that convo and i cant make a head or tail of it. Ill pass.
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Post by koutlosh on Oct 13, 2018 20:04:13 GMT
This is quite funny. I basically completely agree with LindyBeige, which is really rare situation, because... I somehaw like his videos, but at least partially I disagree with him very often Not this time!
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