Ifrit
Member
More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
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Post by Ifrit on Feb 27, 2017 14:36:05 GMT
I have always used thick katana for cutting practice and its what i have grown accustomed to using. I recently took my GSOW and Miss Flexie for a test run, using them on thin saplings, and found that if the sword didnt cut through, it tended to flex around the target.
I imagine this would change with improved edge alignment. You guys have any tips that could improve my performance?
The flexible aspect of miss flexie (Driggers tactical arming sword) reminds me of a jian in an arming sword shape. I absolutely love this but would like to be able to better utilize this design
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Post by Derzis on Feb 27, 2017 18:46:00 GMT
I have the GSOW and the single thing that I changed while cutting with it was getting rid of controlled cutting I was practicing with katana (to stop the blade as close as possible after it went through target). Keep the sword going through the target and after, GSOW was never a cut-stop-cut sword. Centrifugal force is keeping the flexible sword to act "straight". If it flexes around target it means you are reducing something right before impact and the single parameter you can change is the speed. The "not cutting through" is the effect of this action, not the symptom. Or maybe I am in the woods with this explanation and the problem is in the way you grip the sword (before and during the cutting movement) - if you have the tendency to "scoop" the cuts sometimes, when changing the sword for a heavier and longer one, wrong little things are amplified.
PS I can't say a thing about Miss Flexie, never used a type of sword close to it.
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Feb 27, 2017 19:21:14 GMT
Have to keep you edge aliment true.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Feb 27, 2017 20:04:03 GMT
Perhaps try to cut more like arfoo in the beginning of his CS Cutlass Machete clip. Miss Flexie seems to be similar to a thin flexible viking sword, totally different to a katana. One handed, handshake grip, let the blade fly, like the mulinello-twists, and like Derzis said.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Feb 27, 2017 20:38:44 GMT
Good edge alignment, slice (draw-cut) rather than chop, and hit towards the tip. If you hit closer to the hilt, then lots and lots of slicing action.
Hammer grip will help draw-cut with a one-hander. Also, lead with the hilt, with the tip trailing. Then, when you hit, the mass of the sword will pull the tip of the sword along.
(Jian are usually stiff, not flexible, if made for fighting. Flexible ones are for wushu or other show.)
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Feb 27, 2017 21:49:05 GMT
Hah, UrSkeks!... I remember
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Ifrit
Member
More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
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Post by Ifrit on Feb 28, 2017 0:17:43 GMT
Derzis: that makes a ton of sense. That is exactly what i am doing. I have the habit of slowing down mid ways and it makes total sense why it would flex upon impact. I also haveca habit of scooping my cut on the last 1/4 of my cut as well. I think you hit the nail on the head with a hammer on that one. Thanks!
Driggers: yea i can see this being my exact issue when cutting with ms flexie. Im not too adjustd to cutting with one hand yet, as most of my practice revolved around two handed swords
Timo: i will give that a try next time the sun exclipses and i got a chance to take my sword cutting again. Ill try practice that movement slowly in my room for now. Thanks for the tip!
As for jian, isnt the scott roddell jian quite flexible? Or is that not typical for jian? The jian i do have, made from a shortened rapier blade, feels like its accurate to a jian if thats the case.
Andi: i will have to check that review out. I been meaning to for a while, but haven't had the time. Glad you recognize the name "Urskek"! I love the Dark Crystal, as my profile picture would imply. I own the movie and the comic books. I have been obsessed with it forever
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Feb 28, 2017 0:26:01 GMT
The funny thing is, we all said nearly the same with different words. And I was searching for that dammit dvd for at least an hour.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Feb 28, 2017 1:31:17 GMT
As for jian, isnt the scott roddell jian quite flexible? Or is that not typical for jian? The jian i do have, made from a shortened rapier blade, feels like its accurate to a jian if thats the case. The most important thing affecting stiffness is the thickness. Modern production jian tend to be about 6-7mm thick at the base of the blade, and taper to about 3.5-4.5mm. The Scott Rodell jian is at the thin end of this range, and has a longer blade than most, so it's more flexible than many modern jian. Certainly, it isn't as a stiff as a typical katana. Antiques vary more. I've seen from 4.5 to 11mm at the base, tapering to 2.5 to 5mm at the tip. That's for full-size single jian; short jian and twin jian can be thinner than that. For comparison, the tip section of late 19th century British cut-and-thrust military swords tend to be about 3mm. The base of the blade is usually much thicker than a jian blade, so it will be stiffer, but not hugely so. It's really common for cut-thrust swords to have tips about 3-4mm thick, and a base of the blade thick enough (usually 6-12mm). Jian fit that pattern well, so perhaps it's fair to call them swords of average stiffness and flexibility. I haven't noticed any problems with my Rodell jian being too flexy, even with less than ideal edge alignment in cuts. But this is with slicing motion, with the hilt leading, not chopping. After all that, however, the GSOW doesn't look that flexible from its stats. I think its longer blade would make it more flexible than the Rodell jian (the width will compensate for the difference in thickness, going by KoA stats). Slicing vs chopping should work fine.
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Post by Faldarin on Feb 28, 2017 2:04:00 GMT
I have the GSOW and the single thing that I changed while cutting with it was getting rid of controlled cutting I was practicing with katana (to stop the blade as close as possible after it went through target). Keep the sword going through the target and after, GSOW was never a cut-stop-cut sword. Centrifugal force is keeping the flexible sword to act "straight". If it flexes around target it means you are reducing something right before impact and the single parameter you can change is the speed.
This, exactly. Edge alignment is a little less forgiving with a medieval, but in the case of the GSOW and many other spring-temper blades, attempting to stop just after the target will just cause the blade to twist in midair probably before the cut even connects. This will throw off your edge alignment and greatly reduce your power as well. As for slicing vs chopping, a two-handed war sword like that, if you swing it naturally, you will get mostly a chop - with a little slice thrown in. I have found that you don't want to draw/slice as much as with a katana - just personal experience. Try to make sure you cut at or just above the center of percussion, not nearer to the tip if you can help it - and preferably not closer to the guard than the CoP. Sorry, I don't have advice for Miss Flexie, so I'll just bow out of that conversation.
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Ifrit
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More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
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Post by Ifrit on Feb 28, 2017 2:14:32 GMT
Thank you for the advice. Ill make sure to write all this down. It makes me anxious to go try out my swords again so i can practice these techniques. Would you say the GSOW is more kf a hewing blade?
Miss Flexie is basically a smaller, one handed, stiffer version of GSOW. Or at least my GSOW is the closest sword i own to it. Its wide, thin, flexible, greatly tapered and pointy. Im sure the same cutting mechanics should work with it
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Post by Faldarin on Feb 28, 2017 2:31:24 GMT
Most longswords that lean towards the cut of the cut & thrust dichotomy tend to be more of hewing weapons. Rather than damaging an opponent's limb, you would definitely prefer to take it off, or at least impact with enough force to to a partial cut and heavy shock damage against a lightly armored opponent. A 'pure' chop wouldn't be the best thing either, but just the natural arc of two arms swinging it will add a little bit of slice as you move through it, if you aim to hit your target at the furthest extension of your swing. I don't claim to be good at this stuff, but I've read up on a lot of it, talked to people who are smarter than I am, and have been stupid in my backyard plenty of times.
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Razor
Senior Forumite
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Post by Razor on Feb 28, 2017 3:07:23 GMT
For a overly flexible blade, you have to have 100% edge aliment or you are not going to cut with it very good.
I had a AC Mortuary sword and it was the whippiest sword I ever seen. It even had nicknames like Wet Noodle, and Whip of death.
Here is a cutting video from one of my cutting parties with the sword being used. 1st time at :14 with a milk jug then at 3:22 till around 4:30 mats are being used. It really sucks when the guy who was filming kept stopping the cam to much but you do get to see me cutting free standing mats with it.
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Ifrit
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More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
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Post by Ifrit on Feb 28, 2017 4:35:06 GMT
Thanks a ton guys. I really appreciate you all taking time to instruct this noob. I never really got to use the GSOW outside of dreams of mine. It handles exactly as my dreams predicted, only these days, i havent even been able to practice katana much. A few years ago, i practiced quite feverently. Sadly, i lack a way to train in my current where abouts, as people here would flip their lids if they seen me swinging a live sword in the outdoors.
Maybe they will just see me as odd if i take my bokken instead... at least i can practice without risk of injury
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Feb 28, 2017 18:51:07 GMT
Just don't go breaking my sword, you will have a hard time bending it.
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Ifrit
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More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
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Post by Ifrit on Feb 28, 2017 21:49:41 GMT
Definitely not. I love that thing. I originally intended to keep the targets to pool noodles. But just to see how it performed on harder targets, i tried it out on 1/4" saplings and thin branches. I kept the swings to light flicks so the edge could do the work for me
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Post by Cosmoline on Feb 28, 2017 23:07:31 GMT
SR's jian is not unusually flexible from the example I have. It has some flex to it, but it's nothing like the whip-like "swords" used in some form work.
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Ifrit
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More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
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Post by Ifrit on Jul 8, 2017 20:51:56 GMT
I finally was able to find cutting time with ms flexie and my 1893 sabre which I just sharpened. As expected, the sabre cleanly just powered through the targets. But Ms flexie cut like the bottles weren't even there! I tried the techniques that everyone gave me and I learned the strengths of this sword. It's an absolute joy to cut with
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Jul 8, 2017 21:53:54 GMT
Now you have learned why people make cutting swords with really thin blades. They sacrifice thrusting, they sacrifice durability, and they get a sword that's somewhat harder to use properly, and rather single-purpose. But it will do that job very, very well.
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Ifrit
Member
More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
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Post by Ifrit on Jul 8, 2017 21:58:53 GMT
Now you have learned why people make cutting swords with really thin blades. They sacrifice thrusting, they sacrifice durability, and they get a sword that's somewhat harder to use properly, and rather single-purpose. But it will do that job very, very well. I was drunk as hell and I still had the bottom half of my bottles stand with water in them on some of my cuts. I didn't bat a single bottle. I love this sword. I think I'm finally convinced
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