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Post by seriouslee on Jan 29, 2017 10:31:04 GMT
Is it the hardness of the edge?
Is it the aesthetics?
Adhering to ancient practices?
Are these competition use?
Assuming it is not an antique or a case of prohibitively high duties what properties could you expect?
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Jan 29, 2017 10:43:48 GMT
Depends on what sword you are buying and from whom? Different makers have different good points in their work.
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Post by KaOsBlaKbLaDe on Jan 29, 2017 14:40:50 GMT
You havent specified the type of blade youre onquiring about. 2000 can get you a shinsakuto or modern JAPANESE katana and even some antique japanese blades. 2k in the euro market will get you just about any production sword as well as some customs. Authenticity and investment are gonna be the highlights for japanese swords, while fit,finish and artistic license are the primary highlights for euros. This is a heavily watered down response for the sake of a"nutshell" answer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2017 16:58:04 GMT
Yeah you would need to narrow your focus a little bit and tell people what you're really looking for to get a meaningful answer.
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Post by Gunnar Wolfgard on Jan 29, 2017 17:25:24 GMT
What do you get when you buy a $2,000 blade? A sharp pain in your bank account.
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Post by Verity on Jan 29, 2017 17:34:48 GMT
A really expensive sharp piece of steel.
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pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
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Post by pgandy on Jan 29, 2017 17:48:20 GMT
Gunnar beat me to it.
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Post by DigsFossils-n-Knives on Jan 29, 2017 18:04:46 GMT
Assuming we're talking non-exotic materials (no precious metals, no exotic woods, etc.) and we are not talking about antiques, the most expensive part of the blade is the labor. And the more skilled the laborer is, the better the quality, and therefore the higher price. And also there's the "name" of the maker. The better known/respected he or she is, the higher the cost and also higher is the resale value.
Fortunately there are blades for all budgets. You can easily find a blade made cheap for a low cost, a blade that is made reasonably well for a reasonable price, and then you have high-end pieces we can only dream to own.
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Post by Verity on Jan 29, 2017 18:18:46 GMT
In all seriousness, you generally get better fit and finish, more detailing with accents etc. Better (hopefully) heat treatments and generally this price point is where hand made or custom work lives. Some production lines go this high but usually it is where our various talented custom makers play.
It isn't that lower priced blades are terrible (some are, but there are many fine swords 1/4 this threshold), but usually at this price point you have the finest of fit and finishes and painstaking attention to details.
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Post by skane on Jan 29, 2017 19:14:41 GMT
Depends what you want out of it. Collecting, display, practitioner use, etc. Makers vary in where they focus labor and material into the overall package. e.g. the blade could be great, but less expense goes into the mounting, and vice versa. For Japanese style swords, there aren't much choices I'd personally go for in the $2K range for a good overall cutting package that would be worth spending that much... maybe MAS. For up to $2K, I'd find a good base blade and have it remounted. There are lots of options in the sub $1K range that could provide good cutting performance with a solid plain mounting. $2K+ I'd look at used shinsakuto, used customs, and Hataya Kotetsu. Check out Matthew Jensen's channel, he reviews a good number of swords in the $2K+ range, and provides experienced thoughtful comments about what goes into the overall package. www.youtube.com/channel/UCxfT3TItCH6rNgvQXqYfU1A
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Post by seriouslee on Jan 30, 2017 17:02:48 GMT
I bought a very cheap Mushashi (1045 - $50) and everything that could be loose was loose. Fit & finish left much to be desired.
Then I bought a slightly better Munetoshi (Sword & Armory's house brand - 1060 - $120) and it was the difference between night & day.
Fit & finish was 100% better. Everything fit, nothing was loose. It drew from the saya (scabbard) easily even with the cling wrap. After I cleaned it up it still fits snug but not tight.
The materials are that much better. Iron versus cheap castings (probably zinc on the cheaper blade). Supposedly real ray skin etc.
One (1060) can hold an edge even with real use. I have a tall pole (>7') in the backyard that I use for slicing moves. The other (1045) began to roll almost immediately.
So I wondered if there was that much difference stepping up in tiny incremental steps once you start buying more expensive blades.
Thus this thread.
P.S. I play guitar (52 years) and while I wouldn't mind a really expensive custom I'll sound the same on a $500 mass produced guitar.
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Post by pellius on Jan 30, 2017 19:35:08 GMT
As I understand it, some of the more exotic steels demand a great deal of work, care, expertise (maybe tools, equipment and facilities) to produce a useable sword. Powder steels, L6 and S7 come to mind, but I'm not a smith. So you have to pay for expertise and overhead. Plus the steel itself can be pricey.
Same would kinda go for fittings/furniture. Nicer materials with higher craftsmanship means more overhead and up-front costs, and more hours invested by one or more craftsmen that charge more per hour.
If it's an expensive antique, then I would imagine rarity and historical significance would drive up the price.
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Post by Faldarin on Jan 30, 2017 19:49:35 GMT
It also depends on if you are talking production or custom... if we're talking production blades, then generally 2000+$ are going to hopefully get you top of the line fit and finish (hopefully customer service to go with, to make certain that it is so). Other than that, it is possible that they are using a particular steel, as pellius just mentioned. As for the blade itself, your guitar comment may be more fitting. Some 300$ blades arguably physically perform as well as 'expensive' ones in most circumstances. There are some very 'cheap' blades that are excellent, and some that are dogs. (Quality control tends to be all over the place on some lower end blades too... it's not worth it if you have to ship that 600$ sword back and forth several times, especially if you needed to deal with international shipping each time.) Custom work is a more varied topic, and I imagine 2000$ would be a starting point for some, and a high point for others. Again, variety is the name of the game with customs. At that point, it is a question of what is this maker's work worth to you. It is going to take research, speaking to the maker, and making your own decision.
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Post by seriouslee on Jan 30, 2017 19:55:00 GMT
Great stuff. Thanks again.
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Post by demonskull on Jan 30, 2017 20:16:59 GMT
Is it the hardness of the edge? Is it the aesthetics? Adhering to ancient practices? Are these competition use? Assuming it is not an antique or a case of prohibitively high duties what properties could you expect? For $2000 dollars, I expect it to feed and cloth me for the rest of my life cause my wife ain't letting me back in the house.
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Post by Richard Arias on Jan 30, 2017 21:18:56 GMT
I bought a very cheap Mushashi (1045 - $50) and everything that could be loose was loose. Fit & finish left much to be desired. Then I bought a slightly better Munetoshi (Sword & Armory's house brand - 1060 - $120) and it was the difference between night & day. Fit & finish was 100% better. Everything fit, nothing was loose. It drew from the saya (scabbard) easily even with the cling wrap. After I cleaned it up it still fits snug but not tight. The materials are that much better. Iron versus cheap castings (probably zinc on the cheaper blade). Supposedly real ray skin etc. One (1060) can hold an edge even with real use. I have a tall pole (>7') in the backyard that I use for slicing moves. The other (1045) began to roll almost immediately. So I wondered if there was that much difference stepping up in tiny incremental steps once you start buying more expensive blades. Thus this thread. P.S. I play guitar (52 years) and while I wouldn't mind a really expensive custom I'll sound the same on a $500 mass produced guitar. If your set on spending that much go to Butouken (MAS) or buy a mid level blade (Hanwei Bushido or the like) and have someone like Nihonzashi or Randy black upgrade it with skilled hands and high quality materials. No stock blade can ever beat a semi custom at the same price. www.ebay.com/itm/182409715682?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
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stormmaster
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Post by stormmaster on Jan 31, 2017 1:40:22 GMT
for $2000 you should be able to get a one of a kind sword custom, or at least come close, you can feel secure that it will be almost flawless in fit and finish and will be one of the only ones of its kind in the world made exactly how u want it, might be $3000 tho, but you could find amazing customs at $2000 or less
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Post by seriouslee on Jan 31, 2017 3:15:46 GMT
Would you take something you paid that much for and actually use it? Cut et cetera? Or does price (both high and low) make it a wall hanger?
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Post by Faldarin on Jan 31, 2017 3:25:00 GMT
Personal preference? I wouldn't cut with an antique... piece of history, obviously. I plan on cutting with my ATrim when the weather is better, but that's not quite at the 2000$ level. I have a functional katana that is only a wallhanger, not because it's super-expensive, but I like how it looks. Not to mention a 2000$ DH katana would worry me a little more than a 2000$ custom spring-tempered, through hardened piece. (I would still cut with the latter, but I'm probably very biased.) ... not sure if I could bring myself to cut with something like a Fableblades piece if I ever acquired one though. Tinker, ATrim, or Albion? Sure.
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Post by Derzis on Jan 31, 2017 3:49:14 GMT
At 2k I don't really know what you might get since I've seen here some prices above 2k that were not justified - other than fittings - but I would expect something that will make happy a practitioner of JSA ( if you ask 2k for a kat ) - something equal or above Kurin Okuden. Very good ergonomics, abuse resistant tsuka-ito wrapping and obligatory smile on your face when you get it in your hands. For other type of swords I don't know, but the requirements by large I think will be the same.
PS To spend 2k on a sword and don't use it? Keep the 2k and use them on something else.
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