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Snags
Jan 22, 2017 5:07:37 GMT
Post by adambomb on Jan 22, 2017 5:07:37 GMT
So after probably ten years of reading forums and watching videos and a bit of experimenting, I am finally taking the plunge this spring and trying my hand at a stock removal sword, following the stickied tutorials. At this stage, I am starting to slowly gather/build what I need, and planning carefully. However, there are just a couple of spots that have me scratching my head, and I would love some opinions. On the top left is the basic structure of my forge. I've already bought 12 fire bricks (soft) from a local ceramics studio, which is just enough to fit the blade I have planned... Or is it? As you can see, the last little bit of the tang, right at the junction where the pommel would be, would be left out in the cold. The same problem occurs on the top right; the rectangle represents the kitchen oven. I wouldn't be able to fully close the door during the tempering process, but I might be able to stuff the gap with aluminum foil. Can I get away with this? I really do not want to make this sword any shorter than it is; it is already a good 6 inches shorter than a sword of its type should be. It is supposed to be a "hard fantasy" sort of weapon, in that I am not strictly adhering to historic norms, but I am looking to make a plausible, functional weapon that would not turn heads were you to send it back in time. Also regarding the forge, will one burner be enough, mounted pointing down through the roof of the center of the forge? I've read you want a minimum of 450 BTU per cubic inch. If my math is correct, I am looking at about 243 in 3, which comes out to 109,350 BTU. Would one 120-150k BTU forge burner suffice? The steel being used is .25 x 2.25 inch 1075 from Admiral Steel, if that makes any difference. Thanks a bunch in advance.
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Snags
Jan 22, 2017 6:33:33 GMT
Post by freq on Jan 22, 2017 6:33:33 GMT
cant comment on burner ratio but one thing to keep in mind is that the heat will travel out from the source, so you can heat treat a longer blade in a small forge just have to move it in and out, over a time the whole blade will heat up, with practice you can do longer blades, best advice i can give is what most would say start smaller then work up, and be prepared for catastrophic failure (not saying it will happen but it might), dont get discouraged, have a go and see how you go if it all goes pear shaped learn from it for next time, and remember we all started out somewhere none of us made a perfect piece right out of the gate
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Snags
Jan 22, 2017 6:38:15 GMT
Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Jan 22, 2017 6:38:15 GMT
Already answered this once, but I will say just a little more. You can always send it out to be heat treated.
Also like Freq said you would be better off starting out a lot smaller.
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Snags
Jan 22, 2017 6:51:06 GMT
Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Jan 22, 2017 6:51:06 GMT
Buy the way going with only one burner you will get one hell of a hot spot in the middle of the blade. With a forge this long you would not be able to move it in and out to get a even heat.
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Snags
Jan 22, 2017 19:03:51 GMT
Post by adambomb on Jan 22, 2017 19:03:51 GMT
Thanks for weighing in, guys! Rest assured, the sword is a lofty goal for later, but while I am getting the forge set up I am wanting to make sure it will fit when I finally do get to that point. My first project will probably be a bushcraft knife, followed by whatever I decide to make from the big worn out file I've got, working my way up until I get to the sword. I fully anticipate total disaster. Should I just take the bricks I have now and make a knife forge? If I can just send out a sword for heat treat, I might want to just keep the set-up small scale. I don't intend to make a life out of the craft, I just want to make myself cool stuff. I just want to do it RIGHT.
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Snags
Jan 29, 2017 4:55:30 GMT
Post by Brendan Olszowy on Jan 29, 2017 4:55:30 GMT
Hi Adam I have no experience with a gas forge. But traditionally in a coal forge folk will create a more concentrated intense fire and pass the blade smoothly back and forward over it. Then you can see and target the cooler spots while maintaining the hotter spots. I never really had much luck HTing more than 14" blade on a coal forge. But I didn't stick at it long, choosing to build a vertical electric kiln instead. You don't need to harden the tang - it won't be holding an edge, and softer is tougher. It's good to harden the shoulder area, maybe 1.5" back into the tang, but that area will want to be drawn to a much softer spring temper than the blade proper (low 40s Rc). Certainly I don't harden the pommel area of the tang. Softer is less likely to break under high shock loads.
Good luck!!
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Snags
Jan 29, 2017 6:40:04 GMT
Post by adambomb on Jan 29, 2017 6:40:04 GMT
Thanks, Brendan! It makes sense that you would want a softer, tougher tang, I just wasn't sure if it would be too soft. The pieces are all starting to come together. I picked up some parts for my shot at a burner tonight. Just have to set up an injector system,get some gas-rated tape on threads, and see if it'll burn. After that I'll start practicing my grinding and heat-treating with some smaller knives, and work my way up from there. I'm excited to start! Just lots of planning, (and probably much trial and error) first.
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Snags
Feb 3, 2017 14:13:23 GMT
Post by brotherbanzai on Feb 3, 2017 14:13:23 GMT
That forge design won't work with a single burner, it would need a whole row of burners to get anywhere close to an even heat. Only way to maybe make that work for heat treating would be to put the burner close to the open end and then continually slide the blade back and forth through the hot spot while holding the tang with tongs.
You can temper a blade in the forge as well but have to be very careful with the heat. Watch the colors closely and remember that the oxidation colors will only appear when exposed to air, not while inside the forge.
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Snags
Feb 4, 2017 1:30:33 GMT
Post by adambomb on Feb 4, 2017 1:30:33 GMT
Yeah, I think in the end, I would be going for three burners total. The current plan is to build the forge section by section. I'd start with 4 bricks, arranged in the fashion in my first post, with this one burner mounted top and center. This would be what I use to start off, working knives up to 9ish inches. As my skills grow, I can add another one of these sections, with another burner, and so on, until I have three or four sections, for 3-4 burners total. I'd close the seams between sections with refractory cement. Would this work?
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