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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2017 0:13:45 GMT
My last acquisition for quite awhile. This is a true sibling to another I have except this one is a slotted hilt instead of a reverse P. This eagle pommel sword pommel variation have been bookmarked as the Osborn "weeping" eagle. Although examples marked to Osborn are few and far between, the Osborn label is steadfast after E. Andrew Mowbray's treatise on the early American eagle pommels was published. www.gunandswordcollector.com/Templates/author%20pages/mowbray_EA.htmlThe bird appears fiercer on one side while sadder on the other. To illustrate that, here is my older relic during restoration. Here is my last project sword for awhile and I have no in process pictures, just the auction pictures and some statistics. Both siblings have steam pressed horn grips. The blade length on this one more or less mirrors the one above at 70cm Honestly, the whole blade profile mirrors the above in most regards. Blade thickness at the guard/ricasso is 11mm blade width at ricasso 40mm Blade thickness at the cog of 16cm is 6mm blade width at cog is 36mm Much like other blades of the period the blade distal is generally fairly linear from the cog to the end of the fuller but the blade on this one stays stouter further and 3mm thick at the end of the fuller. This means the blade is still 5mm thick midway down the blade. At mid point, the blade has narrowed to 34mm. Width swells just a smidge towards the foible by another 1mm. The point cross section is an honest 1mm This bird came crusty rusty and while I have removed a lot of the active rust, life's complications means another bit of slumber for this 200 plus year old short sabre. There are no real pits and with most of the active rust dealt with I may spend a little time rubbing it out more before storage and more slumber. The scabbard relic no more than a piece of jerky now but definite insight into stitching. Until the next time Here is my Osborn "weeper" folder from a few years ago Eagles version 2.0 is inevitably in the works. drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9AOFMA8y3ODTEdhZ19NM3ZkbG8?usp=sharingThe entire Eagles 1.0 here drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9AOFMA8y3ODNllwS21ja1FuVmM?usp=sharingAttachments:
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on Jan 11, 2017 10:58:59 GMT
I like. Very nice.
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Jan 13, 2017 5:39:31 GMT
Very nice cutlass indeed. Never knew the grips were steam pressed. Always thought them to be hand carved. Thanks for posting.
Cheers.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2017 6:27:45 GMT
The bone and ivory definitely carved and probably a majority of the wood grips were carved "reeded" by hand or in a jig. The pressed horn did not really seem to catch on and I don't believe we see many on either side of 1790-1810. I have a couple few more and they are of that period. One other eagle and a couple of the 1790s with an also somewhat iconic pommel. This one I had re-silvered a bit and it has mellowed since to better match the blade condition. This nco had needed very little and seemed to have been entirely unused. This one with an even shorter blade of 64 cm. Another eagle pommel but classified as a "Ketland" type for the association with that arms dealer. I tend to seek out these junior officer types that have none of the etching or blue&gilt. There is one particular type I am constantly seeking, my own white whale or unicorn quest. Anyway, this plain Jane is proportioned much like all these short sabres. The sword at the head of the thread shows the flaking /de-lamination that occurs with them. I have had some good luck with natural oils but the weeper above is fighting me a bit. It will be more a project in a few months, once I am settled and set up I have been calling them cutlasses but really no more than short sabres. The stout short blades though seem more purposeful than the prettified flank officer and 1803 officers swords. One more if I can find it is an eagle with a British heavy cavalry blade. Oh well, not quickly but I know I have both a book picture example and a plain one in my files somewhere. Browsing my files is often a matter of playing Where's Waldo?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2019 14:15:49 GMT
I'm adding this here, while I'm thinking about it. While browsing through my links, I noted this sword as fairly newly listed. In just recently side stepping a fancier example of this type, I have a soft spot for the un-etched and plainer swords. Almost complete, with most of its scabbard, this fighting weight spadroon drew my attention. I'll do a side by side with a spadroon I have here at the apt and I do hope to re-unite others with a place for everything here in a small apt, or better "office" space. This one has a blade 1 3/16" wide at the guard. My other Osborn spadroon blade is on the skinnier side of things and has more of a spear point with a fuller that is not full length to the point. I don't have a lot of photos of it. The blades of this form possibly German import blades hilted in England, or in the US. I tried to capture that in the last of these four pictures. This Osborn type perhaps my favorite but I am still hunting for the perfect (in my view) plain Bolton sabre. Call this one my latest impulse buy I'll regret, as I really should have just saved the image. The pretty Osborn that had just sold on ebay has some issues but went for a song, all things considered. There are a couple of more listed but for some reason, I've not gone for them yet. I do really need to stop acquiring more of them. Images are a lot easier to house and accumulate. Someone got a bargain, despite its faults I'll try to wait on the four figure examples for when that perfect Bolton appears but the phatty spadroon was hard to resist this time.
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Post by markus313 on Jan 22, 2019 14:40:15 GMT
This is beyond awesome! Stats, mayhaps?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2019 14:56:36 GMT
The blade on this one listed as 32 1/2" and as mentioned 1 3/16" at the guard. If you open that composite image in a new window/tab there is one shot of the blade's thickness. I'll put calipers on it when it comes in. I won't have it before towards the end of the month, as it doesn't ship until next week. I guess I could reveal the source but that would be telling I should have just forwarded the listing to a compatriot of eagles but I have a hunch he was the ebay buyer of the fancy dan. The seller of this one has been bookmarked for eons and I've almost bought from him in the past. If I mentioned Spangler, some might find his stuff and if I mentioned his first name the goodies would get away They have in the past
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Post by markus313 on Jan 22, 2019 18:57:34 GMT
Thank you. What a Dream-sword. I can understand you could not resist. Thank you very much for sharing.
I must disallow myself to search upon that Spangler with all my might.
Any further info on that beauty would be greatly appreciated, if you`d be inclined so. ...Fantastic purchase!
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Post by Jordan Williams on Jan 22, 2019 19:07:34 GMT
Wow I love that little epee. I am imagining it being similar to the French gendarme swords.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2019 19:24:55 GMT
I believe the French sword is an 1816 infantry officer sword. I don't know the timeline for it but I would assume Second Empire Coulax & Klingenthal.
As to finding his listings, it is an open quest for all. I think I have posted an old list in the past and did see new traffic for some fairly obscure dealers. I'll just add that edged weapons aren't his main business and he currently has a dandy 1911 A1 on his front page.
Some of his swords have been there forever. He does have some stuff that might be of interest, like a couple of m1840 wristbreakers, a bare Patton, a bare 1906 experimental. Stuff like that. He has an Ames foot officer sword I have watched forever and he was one of a very few that had a Collins foot officer sword with the gutta percha grip. Lots of bayonets. I'll post a link when he updates the pages.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2019 20:04:20 GMT
I have been collecting eagles and other late 18th to early 19th century swords. I had fallen off the wagon a bit last year but as of 2016, had accumulated a number of eagle pommel swords. What had begun my quest was three particular varieties. The Ketland form, The Osborn (weepers) and the Bolton/Bates types. My ongoing archiving has seen me uploading my Eagles 2.0 folder since beginning this thread. drive.google.com/open?id=1R7gCmCnldPjOKBdprrlNpu-3FaL-GPzdNote that the folders are basically a clipboard of my archiving images and some are misplaced on purpose. Forever a work in progress but I am getting close to a serious edit and will eventually be uploading an eagles 3.0 and then a more serious and annotated gallery. For the time being, consider it for educational purposes only and that several large volume sellers truly own those images (Jan, Pierre, etc). As to what else I can add to the new inbound spadroon is fairly minimal. 32 1/4" vs the 32 1/2" I posted earlier. No weight listed in the sale but figure less than 1.5 pounds. Most of my spadroons range in the 1lb 4oz-1lb 8oz range. I've truly lost track of how many old swords I have and currently have most of them in storage. Sad but true. A locker 20 minutes away is too far for me and I need to find a local garage or dry basement rental. Plan b is loading them all into the apt but that gets political. I need to do a serious inventory anyway and that is past due. Spring is still a few weeks away. I have had a storage fee for two years now. Condo life has its pluses and minuses.
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Post by markus313 on Jan 22, 2019 21:11:07 GMT
I can remember having browsed through the link you`ve posted quite some time ago with, drooling at the pics with outmost pleasure. Thanks for posting that link again.
Your collection is most impressive.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Jan 22, 2019 21:31:02 GMT
That diamond section eagle head is a beautiful piece, I love it so much, unless it's floppy. But it looks like an amazing fighting weapon.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2019 21:58:55 GMT
If you are looking at the sword at the bottom of the rack, it is quite stiff. It has the faint remains of a white etch. I have seen siblings of it with blue&gilt
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Post by elbrittania39 on Jan 27, 2019 8:55:11 GMT
Eagle head swords are my favorite American blades. They've been on my list for quite awhile.
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Post by viece on Jan 27, 2019 13:28:13 GMT
Great collection. I am starting to really like spadroons, almost entirely from edelweiss' comments and pics. I have a special soft spot for plain, unetched examples of all types of swords in well-used and/or crusty condition. There was a bone-handled one on Antique Swords.EU until recently with a very heavy patina. Thought about it but thought too long.
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Jan 28, 2019 12:09:43 GMT
Yes, you have a great collection and your Eagle files you allow us to download are simply astonishing. I have one or two Eagles plus some Veteran Society (if that is the right word) swords. I bought the veteran swords because of the over the top scabbard furniture and hilts. One even has a build-in whistle under the guard. It works too. And this sword is quit beefy. Not your average whimpy parade sword at all. I still have to sort them out. I cleaned and oiled them and now they are waiting for further action. I bought the Mowbray book 2 years ago though and that will be, toghether with your files, of great help. Now to get to the point: Somewhere above there was a mentioning of the pressed horn grips. I started to google around a bit and found a discussion on SFI where the pressed horn bit was mentioned and a link to an interesting book: www.swordforum.com/vb4/showthread.php?117274-Osborn-horn-grip-eaglehead and books.google.nl/books?id=95_VCQAAQBAJ&redir_esc=yReading the discussion on SFI it becomes clear that not very much is known about the in and outs of the pressed horn mechanics. The pressed horn subject got me thinking: 1. If this pressing horn business worked and the results were good enough to be mounted on swords, it seems logical that the pressed horn method would seep through to the general market of boxes, picture frames and nick nacks etc, or was it the other way around? If one was looking for answers as to how the grips were made, one maybe should look into the use of pressed horn in a wider market context? And 2: I just bought this M1850 Italian Bersaglieri Officers sabre last Saturday and started doing some research for a review already. The sabre should be here at the end of the week. Now, looking at the nicely cut grip one may get the impression this was made from some sort of ebony. Looking at other pictures and the sabres with cracked grips showed what is under the dark stain is not ebony but a much lighter coloured wood. I do not think the grips were even made from walnut by the looks of it. One cracked grip had evidence of quite a lot of splinters. Also the diamond pattern looks a bit soft even in the deeper parts of the pattern. Anyway I am quite sure that those M1850 grips were not hand made but pressed from say cherry or some good, but easy to work alternative, because hand cutting these diamond pattern grips takes too long and therefore would even at that time be just too expensive. This same pressed wood phenomenon we see also in the stocks of cheaper guns were the diamond patterns are not cut by craftsmen anymore. The M1850 was too early for the spindle carving one sees later in the century. I am quite sure the M1850 grips are at least partially pressed with maybe the lower level bands cut out by hand, but I would like your opinion on this subject, if you have the time and energy that is. Thanks in advance.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2019 15:25:53 GMT
An embossing process used even today in pressing decorative art to wood instead of carving, or in other materials casting. Certainly casting or otherwise producing masters to then form dies. Checkering and other aspects of sword grips certainly applicable. fwiw, the references in the SFI thread mine and I have added both Hartzler volumes since then. The embossing processes also apparent with the metal foil grips pressed with faux wire on many of the British 1796 infantry swords and others. My slotted hilt sword had once been covered with embossed foil. Attachments:
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Jan 28, 2019 21:32:07 GMT
Thank you for your response. Embossing is a possibility. Forgot all about that. The Italian Albertina has an embossed silver foil grip cover too. Also found an interesting ( advertised as Italian ) semi spadroon just 5 minutes ago. Checkered grip inlaid with wire or chain. I have one with a bone grip with inlay but I never saw one like this. Had I only known. It went for Euro 169.....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2019 22:33:00 GMT
When we consider the quantity of what we see of various grips (and identical) we have to accept that a lot of the checkering was done with dies. As we see with the 18th century grips, methods must have been an accepted and known processes in manufacturing with furbishers (often in industrial cities) being apt and eager to adopt/adapt wholly manufactured components. There is one particular ferrule design that must have rolled through as many miles of the ribbon, passing through simple dies. Of course, there were other patterns as well. Waterworks and then steam coming in during the 18th century. WH Horstmann, a huge magnate of US industry began in life working with looms. This may work. 100 years of Horstmann drive.google.com/file/d/0B9AOFMA8y3ODSXdOX0xNSlZFNm8/view?
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