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Post by Afoo on Jan 10, 2017 5:14:10 GMT
Actually, the best option, as we discovered here, is to carry a bear
Better yet, get a dehydrated freeze-dried bear. Just add water and you are good to go.
Unfortunately, in Canada we have a mag limit of 10 bears, so you will need to be careful with how you use them. Also best to store them in a warm environment - don't want them to start hibernating on you
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Post by legacyofthesword on Jan 10, 2017 5:17:08 GMT
Actually, the best option, as we discovered here, is to carry a bear Better yet, get a dehydrated freeze-dried bear. Just add water and you are good to go. Unfortunately, in Canada we have a mag limit of 10 bears, so you will need to be careful with how you use them. Also best to store them in a warm environment - don't want them to start hibernating on you Very true - here in the U.S. you can carry a drum mag, but then your bears tend to jam. Causes all sorts of problems....
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Post by Afoo on Jan 10, 2017 5:34:53 GMT
I have heard stories of people who had their concealed carry bears go off in their coat pockets. Not a pretty sight.
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Post by legacyofthesword on Jan 10, 2017 5:41:31 GMT
That usually happens when you stick your hand into your pocket and aren't careful about where you put your fingers. This can make a bear go off rather suddenly.
It's always important to carry a backup bear, in case your primary bear malfunctions. Also, one must be sure one's bear is comfortable to carry all day. Some bears are too large, and can making sitting uncomfortable.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jan 10, 2017 6:40:03 GMT
And never bring a Panda to a Grizzly fight!
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Post by bloodwraith on Jan 10, 2017 11:29:53 GMT
Actually, the best option, as we discovered here, is to carry a bear Better yet, get a dehydrated freeze-dried bear. Just add water and you are good to go. Unfortunately, in Canada we have a mag limit of 10 bears, so you will need to be careful with how you use them. Also best to store them in a warm environment - don't want them to start hibernating on you That is why Australian violent crime is so low, no one wants to mess with drop bear wielding citizens. Also the fact that we are too busy fighting all the other things wanting to kill us to kill each other might be an answer to that too. Never leave home without your drop bear fellow aussies.
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Post by bluetrain on Jan 10, 2017 11:44:52 GMT
It would be unwise to characterize a potential attacker as a coward. Chances are, he (always a he) is way more experienced than you, has been injured before and is used to it, has already calculated his chances of success, has a mindset for causing injury if necessary and has the element of surprise on his side. There is also the question of why some people are selected for attack and not others. This doesn't account for the rare and random cases of someone out to harm as many people as possible, who, like the above, will have surprise on his side and has made up his mind to kill people whatever his chances may be.
Americans are not really as well armed as is suggested, since ownership of firearms is not evenly distributed.
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Post by bloodwraith on Jan 10, 2017 11:53:51 GMT
Okay, I don't have much practical firearms experience for various reasons, though I find them interesting. My question is with the thirty foot rule and you are out in public and you are concealed carrying how do you determine who is someone you will draw down upon? I mean you aren't all running around drawing down on everyone you see just in case, so how do you expect to get your gun out against an assailant who can get very close to you, close enough to render your firearm moot? Close enough to kill you with a blade. You can call this a naive question but are you as safe as you think with a firearm in concealed carry? How long does it take you to get your firearm out and into an effective position of use under stress conditions with your assailant already on top of you? Sorry to derail the thread. There is also the question of freezing when the violence starts, do you think that would impact your ability to draw your weapon and use it effectively to keep yourself safe?
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Post by bluetrain on Jan 10, 2017 13:09:05 GMT
I have often brought up that question, usually about dangerous animals, though, but have never received much of an answer. But it's an excellent question, just the same. Your firearm is never moot, though. But responding in time is problematic, as you suspect it might be. One has to have the right mental attitude before hand. You have to be prepared to respond aggressively. Jeff Cooper speaks to that point in his little red book without even mentioning guns. But such situations are very rare and one would rarely ever need a fast draw. I don't know how you might practice responding to an attack like that. It certainly isn't something you would be able to do at your friendly little neighborhood indoor range.
However, it becomes obvious that most of the shooting you might actually do at said indoor range is pointless as far as hitting the target, given the situation you describe. You do need to be able to get the gun into action (to put it one way) very quickly, which means being able to access the weapon and get a good grip on it. After that, it's easy, whether it's a man with a knife on top of you or a mountain lion. I suspect that your chances of it being one or the other are just about equal.
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Post by Derzis on Jan 10, 2017 13:48:24 GMT
I have often brought up that question, usually about dangerous animals, though, but have never received much of an answer. But it's an excellent question, just the same. Your firearm is never moot, though. But responding in time is problematic, as you suspect it might be. One has to have the right mental attitude before hand. You have to be prepared to respond aggressively. Jeff Cooper speaks to that point in his little red book without even mentioning guns. But such situations are very rare and one would rarely ever need a fast draw. I don't know how you might practice responding to an attack like that. It certainly isn't something you would be able to do at your friendly little neighborhood indoor range. However, it becomes obvious that most of the shooting you might actually do at said indoor range is pointless as far as hitting the target, given the situation you describe. You do need to be able to get the gun into action (to put it one way) very quickly, which means being able to access the weapon and get a good grip on it. After that, it's easy, whether it's a man with a knife on top of you or a mountain lion. I suspect that your chances of it being one or the other are just about equal. If you are the target no matter how quick draw you are, you are dead - unless you have 6th sense or the guy made it obvious for you and then you might have 49% chances to get just wounded before actually taking out the gun. Attacks are not happening like in far west movies - all the bad guys are telling with their body language that they want to get you. Unfortunately.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2017 15:52:16 GMT
It isn't really pointless, because you have to start somewhere and you can't have a bunch of people that walked off the street diving behind cover and blasting away while running and so forth or you're going to get people hurt / killed.
There's always the chance something takes you out, life is uncertain.
You can improve your chances with better situational awareness, not just reading emotions and attitudes but avoiding potential ambush spots, being able to locate cover / concealment, and if the environment is appropriate getting your weapon ready for draw (undoing clasps, getting clothes or whatever out of the way) so you can get to it quicker if you need it.
You don't need a sixth sense to walk a little further away from the wall so you don't get blindsided at the corner.
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ChrisA
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Senior Forumite
Posts: 1,240
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Post by ChrisA on Jan 10, 2017 17:55:19 GMT
I applied for a CCW bear license but New York State is very strict on carrying bears around.
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Post by bluetrain on Jan 10, 2017 18:00:44 GMT
I posed the question of what "tiny" meant but it occurs to me to ask what "obsessed" might include, too.
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Post by Cosmoline on Jan 10, 2017 18:10:16 GMT
It's interesting to see in the sources in Europe at least that self defense knives were quite large by modern standards. The "peasant protector" messers, the rondels, etc all had enough steel to penetrate to the heart and lung from any angle. Of course a blade this large couldn't be easily concealed and opened you up to defensive techniques that used the length against you. It may be that people attacked when they wanted to KILL you, not merely wound. So a slash wasn't seen as sufficient. This makes sense given that "self defense" was basically murdering the guy that started it. So it was kill or be killed. Also, the clothing may have had better anti-slash protection. Layered linen garments and wool are much harder to slash through than polly or cotton. I remember seeing a very stylish tight-fitting Renaissance jacket that was made of something like 20 or more layers of linen! Someone was worried about blades. But you'd never know it was armor just looking at it. Maybe that's why they favored powerful ice-pick style attacks. To drive through any secret armor into paydirt and kill as quickly as possible.
It could also argue that the small slashing blades we use today are more about the *idea* of cutting a person than actually cutting the person. Even criminals are usually more interested in threatening or hurting than actually killing.
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Post by howler on Jan 10, 2017 20:32:32 GMT
legacyofthesword and 1776 - you are correct in that I am putting myself at a risk, and I do acknowledge that in my rant. However, I would argue that this risk is very small, and it is the price I pay for honouring the social contract I have with the rest of society. Again, for us here in Canada, the state has monopoly on the use of force. That's not a feeling or opinion - thats the law. There are some who would wish to defy the spirit or letter of this law, fine, but I am not one of them for the reasons mentioned above. Clearly there are some regions of the world who have a very different view on arms control than Canada. We could debate the merits of either approach and quote stats on violent crime etc till the cows (or moose in our case) come home. Nonetheless, the States and other similarly well armed societies have yet to descend into vigilante hellholes, and our more pacifist society here has yet to descend into a lawless backwater like in Judge Dredd. As such, it is safe to say that there are merits to both views. I do not claim our way to be superior, but I just wanted to share with those on the internet *why* we have these laws here in Canada. I have seen too many youtube videos from 19 year old kids (or indeed 91 year old kids) who rant about how our laws are draconian and oppressive, but there is a reason behind them if you look at the legal and social background....and so far they seem to be working. BTW: This argument was intended to justify why myself and like-minded people do not carry large knives for the explicit purpose of self defense, hence its relevance to the post at hand. Speaking of the post at hand - I wonder where the OP went.... At this time in history, your personal views and individual decisions seem to be working for your given environment (your region of Canada). Also, I get the feeling that you understand and support others beliefs who reside in different regions, with different personal defensive views, and whose views are different for society at large. Individual choice, as long as a real life Road Warrior situation does not begin...or you wake up in Orwell's 1984. In the States, minus the gang scourge (ironically in liberal cities with draconian anti-firearm laws), the motto "an armed society is a polite one" seems to be the norm. The line between individual rights and society (the group) can sometimes become blurry, but this is the conflict of man living with his fellow man. I keep ending my posts with that common sense thing, but realize that not everyone may indeed (sadly) not have a sufficient amount. The States have A THIRD OF A BILLION PEOPLE who live in wildly different demographic regions. Most of these regions do not have a problem with guns like the media likes to sensationalize all of America as somehow having (and Canada is NOT a police state). Oh, wait, what was the subject again...oh, yeah, I like small knives.
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Post by Derzis on Jan 10, 2017 20:40:55 GMT
When the prisons were not like the ones from our days, threatening was not really an option for what you call now "bandits", Cosmoline.
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Post by howler on Jan 10, 2017 20:45:51 GMT
That usually happens when you stick your hand into your pocket and aren't careful about where you put your fingers. This can make a bear go off rather suddenly. It's always important to carry a backup bear, in case your primary bear malfunctions. Also, one must be sure one's bear is comfortable to carry all day. Some bears are too large, and can making sitting uncomfortable. The backup to your bear is a cub. You know, these bear jokes are actually working...BEARLY.
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Post by howler on Jan 10, 2017 20:47:25 GMT
And never bring a Panda to a Grizzly fight! Unless its a Kung Fu Panda. Oh, God...what did I just say? NO MORE!
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Post by howler on Jan 10, 2017 20:58:51 GMT
Okay, I don't have much practical firearms experience for various reasons, though I find them interesting. My question is with the thirty foot rule and you are out in public and you are concealed carrying how do you determine who is someone you will draw down upon? I mean you aren't all running around drawing down on everyone you see just in case, so how do you expect to get your gun out against an assailant who can get very close to you, close enough to render your firearm moot? Close enough to kill you with a blade. You can call this a naive question but are you as safe as you think with a firearm in concealed carry? How long does it take you to get your firearm out and into an effective position of use under stress conditions with your assailant already on top of you? Sorry to derail the thread. There is also the question of freezing when the violence starts, do you think that would impact your ability to draw your weapon and use it effectively to keep yourself safe? Good question, with different answers. For me, say I'm in the supermarket isle and I hear gunshots in the other isle. If I have a firearm, I have options, don't I. I don't practice being a quick draw (wild west) gunslinger. Maybe I'm in a room and hear a shot down the hall. If I have a firearm, I have options, don't I. If someone has "the drop" on you...game over, no can defend. Also, the whole millisecond game (reading and reacting like some kind of professional operator) takes severe and constant training. When the shooting starts, I just might be behind the door, crouched down with my piece...waiting. Or maybe I aim behind an obstacle and shoot, thus ending a mass shooting. Options.
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Post by howler on Jan 10, 2017 21:03:24 GMT
I have often brought up that question, usually about dangerous animals, though, but have never received much of an answer. But it's an excellent question, just the same. Your firearm is never moot, though. But responding in time is problematic, as you suspect it might be. One has to have the right mental attitude before hand. You have to be prepared to respond aggressively. Jeff Cooper speaks to that point in his little red book without even mentioning guns. But such situations are very rare and one would rarely ever need a fast draw. I don't know how you might practice responding to an attack like that. It certainly isn't something you would be able to do at your friendly little neighborhood indoor range. However, it becomes obvious that most of the shooting you might actually do at said indoor range is pointless as far as hitting the target, given the situation you describe. You do need to be able to get the gun into action (to put it one way) very quickly, which means being able to access the weapon and get a good grip on it. After that, it's easy, whether it's a man with a knife on top of you or a mountain lion. I suspect that your chances of it being one or the other are just about equal. If you are the target no matter how quick draw you are, you are dead - unless you have 6th sense or the guy made it obvious for you and then you might have 49% chances to get just wounded before actually taking out the gun. Attacks are not happening like in far west movies - all the bad guys are telling with their body language that they want to get you. Unfortunately.
This is true. That's why I mouse up behind a barricade with my piece...waiting, or carefully aim a shot to end the situation. No quick draw hero stuff, and if a bad guy has "the drop" on you...forget it.
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