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Post by howler on Jan 8, 2017 21:45:30 GMT
Or if they live in a bad area, which is prone to violence. And a knife will make you popular? You cut maybe one guy one time, but sooner than expected you will end up dead or with some luck in jail. Huh? Or maybe KEEP YOU ALIVE, jack.
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Post by howler on Jan 8, 2017 21:51:52 GMT
I've lived in so called bad neighbourhood - but not in States - and it is all about you more than your knife. Maybe they will try you to see from what you are made of, but how you know to de-escalate a conflict is how you will be seen. A knife will not solve your problems. You take out a knife because you didn't read the situation and you got shot. PS Maybe a surf on this site will give better insight than a bigger blade: www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/bullies.htmOr not. No doubt it is indeed all about you and not the tool, so there is no disagreement there. No matter what you carry (freedom of choice/different strokes for different folks), it does not mean you have to pull it irresponsibly.
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Post by Derzis on Jan 8, 2017 21:58:34 GMT
Why someone will chose an EDC based on self-defense capabilities of a knife? If he is paranoiac the answer is obvious though. I wouldn't say that. Use for mundane tasks is primary, but putting considerations into its defensive capabilities isn't exactly paranoid. Heck, that's probably over half the male population, and more than a few women who may make these considerations. Not saying you want to walk around like the dude from Machete, btw ;) . I have stuck my Cold Steel Vaquero fully serrated folding knife (5 1/2" blade) in my jacket a few times before going into a late night gas station. The idea being to run away, but those criminal hands reaching out to grab WILL get a nasty slash if he is stupid enough to be chasing me down and reaching out (the idea behind my choice for the Vaquero design). I also have a fully serrated Spyderco Endura based on this principle, run and slash at hands, wrists...not stand, stab, grapple, which would happen if cornered and out of running ability (as you REALLY don't want to be in a standing knife fight, because probability of hospital or morgue visit is high for everyone). Your last phrase sums it all.
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Post by Derzis on Jan 8, 2017 22:01:53 GMT
And a knife will make you popular? You cut maybe one guy one time, but sooner than expected you will end up dead or with some luck in jail. Huh? Or maybe KEEP YOU ALIVE, jack. What makes you think that a knife saves you if you can't save yourself empty handed? It grows bigger? Don't put yourself in that situation first, jack. I buy knifes as tools, not special to kill guys. A SAK is enough, not even blade out if needed if you really feel you want to survive a knife fight. But I forget sometimes here, bigger blade is better.
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Post by howler on Jan 8, 2017 22:05:59 GMT
Hey... as a dabbler in psychology and human behavior, this site is an intriguing read. Thanks! Interesting, or disturbing? ~~ A few thoughts here 1) The primary purpose of a modern knife is as tool. Not a weapon. Do not get the two confused. We do not live in a mad max world full of baddies and terrorists. My EDC is a 3 inch folder which also includes a screwdriver - guess which of the two functionalities I use most often (hint: its not sonic). 2) Large knives in an urban setting are impractical. Legal limits for us non-Americans (ie: 95% of the world's population) aside, they are big and bulky and ostentatious. Even if it IS legal to carry around a machete or sword, I am sure the panicked citizens in your neighborhood or concerned first responders arriving to their aid will not be concerned with discussing the minutiae of prohibited weapons laws. Even if you go free at the end, its still not a great way to start off the day. 3) Better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener at war you say? Sounds catchy, but what is this "war" you speak of? Recent events notwithstanding, the collapse of our society is not imminent for some time. We have systems in place to protect us, and have faith that most of our fellow citizens are respectful, lawful human beings. Yes I know some of us are reluctant to trust in others, but remember that the rest of your fellow citizens are trusting in you to do the same. The moment you arm yourself with an item intended to be used as a weapon, you severely stretch that trust. You might argue that I am putting myself at risk by not arming myself, and you would be right - but placing my safety in the hands of society, both through the law abiding nature of my fellow citizens and the law enforcement agencies we support, is an explicit part of my social contract (government has monopoly over the use of force), and is a small price to pay for maintaining the smooth function of society, at least in my jurisdiction. This is one reason I myself do not carry around large weapons. I am at no shortage of bayonets and kukris to do so, and in the past I did. I am, to the best of my knowledge, a good person, and do not believe I would use a weapon out of malice or with the intent to do harm. However, I also admit that, no matter my intentions, I can always be wrong. I also recognize that, unlike law enforcement or military personnel, I have not received specialized training, nor am I subject to the same checks and balances and disciplined command structure. To ask the person sitting next to me on the bus or the colleague who shares my office to trust their safety and well-being to my hands is a naive self-grandiose delusion. I admit that this is a personal opinion and very much shaped by the society I live in - we do not allow people to carry firearms concealed or otherwise, etc. However, I think it does reflect a strong argument for why it is socially unacceptable to carry large knives, and why many people choose not to do so. The fact that the citizens of my country (and many others) actively voted for or supported the politicians who made up these laws suggests that this sentiment is not unique or isolated. In any case, you did ask why, and there is part of my answer. Not meant to be a negative reflection on those who do carry concealed weapons and/or large knives intended for self defense, but rather some insight into the thought processes and the moral justification for an individual, and indeed an entire society*, chose not to exercise that right * In Canada, my understanding is that the use of force is limited to the government. We cannot carry weapons, or items that are intended primarily as weapons, even for self defense. If I am caught with a knife and the police ask why I was carrying it, I cannot answer with self defense. That does not prohibit me from carrying knives, I just cannot be intending to use them on other people. Even if I use it in self defense I have to prove that I had exhausted all other non-lethal options to escape or diffuse the situation, or that I acted out of a level of panic and fear consistent with an average, mentally capable human. 4) Large knives do have their uses, yet. In the wilderness or on a farm....but as tools first and foremost. As any good worker knows, you choose the tool thats appropriate for the task. Historically people did carry around swords and large daggers, but that stopped. Why? Because the nature of the tasks changed, and the tools changed with them. If you do carry a large knife, then all the more power to you, but personally I think that in today's society, discrete, multifunctional tools are the wiser choice. An interesting post. I agree with much, though I am on the side of a bit more power in the hands of the individual and a bit less in the hands of the state, and that an armed society is a polite one. ALWAYS exercise common sense on the subject of tools that can be lethal. I think I know your views on weapons in your castle (home), Afoo...How's that CS Bill working out (and can you imagine trying to justify carrying THAT around town..."officer, I heard there was a herd of dangerous feral hogs running amok")?
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Post by howler on Jan 8, 2017 22:07:43 GMT
I wouldn't say that. Use for mundane tasks is primary, but putting considerations into its defensive capabilities isn't exactly paranoid. Heck, that's probably over half the male population, and more than a few women who may make these considerations. Not saying you want to walk around like the dude from Machete, btw . I have stuck my Cold Steel Vaquero fully serrated folding knife (5 1/2" blade) in my jacket a few times before going into a late night gas station. The idea being to run away, but those criminal hands reaching out to grab WILL get a nasty slash if he is stupid enough to be chasing me down and reaching out (the idea behind my choice for the Vaquero design). I also have a fully serrated Spyderco Endura based on this principle, run and slash at hands, wrists...not stand, stab, grapple, which would happen if cornered and out of running ability (as you REALLY don't want to be in a standing knife fight, because probability of hospital or morgue visit is high for everyone). Your last phrase sums it all. Yup. But notice that's after the whole run and slash routine (my primary tactic).
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Post by Derzis on Jan 8, 2017 22:09:40 GMT
Your last phrase sums it all. Yup. But notice that's after the whole run and slash routine (my primary tactic). Worthless, if a guy really wants to kill you, will do it.
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Post by howler on Jan 8, 2017 22:12:07 GMT
Huh? Or maybe KEEP YOU ALIVE, jack. What makes you think that a knife saves you if you can't save yourself empty handed? It grows bigger? Don't put yourself in that situation first, jack. Huh (AGAIN)? What does empty handed have to do with knives (or guns, staff, Monty Python "comfy pillows")? Individual situation decision making and avoidance of bad environments is clear and need not be pointed out, as the subject matter is quite clear.
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Post by Derzis on Jan 8, 2017 22:15:19 GMT
Empty handed means negociate your situation, not martial arts. If he said he f your mother, ask polite if he used condoms, number from 1 to 10 and at 8 hit his perplexed face with all you got if you really feel to retaliate. And run.
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Post by howler on Jan 8, 2017 22:16:03 GMT
Yup. But notice that's after the whole run and slash routine (my primary tactic). Worthless, if a guy really wants to kill you, will do it. Well, if a cold blooded assassin wants to do someone in (using the "drop", no less), sure...but that isn't the subject. Your throwing straw men at me...WHY?
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Post by Derzis on Jan 8, 2017 22:17:54 GMT
Worthless, if a guy really wants to kill you, will do it. Well, if a cold blooded assassin wants to do someone in (using the "drop", no less), sure...but that isn't the subject. Your throwing straw men at me...WHY? It is the subject. I bet you don't give your wallet, instead you fight.
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Post by howler on Jan 8, 2017 22:19:26 GMT
Empty handed means negociate your situation, not martial arts. If he said he f your mother, ask polite if he used condoms, number from 1 to 10 and at 8 hit his perplexed face with all you got if you really feel to retaliate. I have agreed with you from the beginning that situational awareness, common sense, avoidance of bad environments is mandatory, and the beginning of any self defense discussion.
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Post by howler on Jan 8, 2017 22:19:51 GMT
Well, if a cold blooded assassin wants to do someone in (using the "drop", no less), sure...but that isn't the subject. Your throwing straw men at me...WHY? It is the subject. I bet you don't give your wallet, instead you fight. I agree that you give wallet. Lethal response is LAST resort.
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Post by howler on Jan 8, 2017 22:28:39 GMT
Empty handed means negociate your situation, not martial arts. If he said he f your mother, ask polite if he used condoms, number from 1 to 10 and at 8 hit his perplexed face with all you got if you really feel to retaliate. And run. Self defense is an awesome responsibility, and not to be taken lightly. You pull and use a lethal device and MANY lives will change forever (legally, physically, spiritually) in the blink of an eye. It is good that you (I feel) value human life so much, regardless of our discussions and quibbling over the details.
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on Jan 8, 2017 22:31:35 GMT
Hey... as a dabbler in psychology and human behavior, this site is an intriguing read. Thanks! Interesting, or disturbing? ~~ A few thoughts here 1) The primary purpose of a modern knife is as tool. Not a weapon. Do not get the two confused. We do not live in a mad max world full of baddies and terrorists. My EDC is a 3 inch folder which also includes a screwdriver - guess which of the two functionalities I use most often (hint: its not sonic). 2) Large knives in an urban setting are impractical. Legal limits for us non-Americans (ie: 95% of the world's population) aside, they are big and bulky and ostentatious. Even if it IS legal to carry around a machete or sword, I am sure the panicked citizens in your neighborhood or concerned first responders arriving to their aid will not be concerned with discussing the minutiae of prohibited weapons laws. Even if you go free at the end, its still not a great way to start off the day. 3) Better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener at war you say? Sounds catchy, but what is this "war" you speak of? Recent events notwithstanding, the collapse of our society is not imminent for some time. We have systems in place to protect us, and have faith that most of our fellow citizens are respectful, lawful human beings. Yes I know some of us are reluctant to trust in others, but remember that the rest of your fellow citizens are trusting in you to do the same. The moment you arm yourself with an item intended to be used as a weapon, you severely stretch that trust. You might argue that I am putting myself at risk by not arming myself, and you would be right - but placing my safety in the hands of society, both through the law abiding nature of my fellow citizens and the law enforcement agencies we support, is an explicit part of my social contract (government has monopoly over the use of force), and is a small price to pay for maintaining the smooth function of society, at least in my jurisdiction. This is one reason I myself do not carry around large weapons. I am at no shortage of bayonets and kukris to do so, and in the past I did. I am, to the best of my knowledge, a good person, and do not believe I would use a weapon out of malice or with the intent to do harm. However, I also admit that, no matter my intentions, I can always be wrong. I also recognize that, unlike law enforcement or military personnel, I have not received specialized training, nor am I subject to the same checks and balances and disciplined command structure. To ask the person sitting next to me on the bus or the colleague who shares my office to trust their safety and well-being to my hands is a naive self-grandiose delusion. I admit that this is a personal opinion and very much shaped by the society I live in - we do not allow people to carry firearms concealed or otherwise, etc. However, I think it does reflect a strong argument for why it is socially unacceptable to carry large knives, and why many people choose not to do so. The fact that the citizens of my country (and many others) actively voted for or supported the politicians who made up these laws suggests that this sentiment is not unique or isolated. In any case, you did ask why, and there is part of my answer. Not meant to be a negative reflection on those who do carry concealed weapons and/or large knives intended for self defense, but rather some insight into the thought processes and the moral justification for an individual, and indeed an entire society*, chose not to exercise that right * In Canada, my understanding is that the use of force is limited to the government. We cannot carry weapons, or items that are intended primarily as weapons, even for self defense. If I am caught with a knife and the police ask why I was carrying it, I cannot answer with self defense. That does not prohibit me from carrying knives, I just cannot be intending to use them on other people. Even if I use it in self defense I have to prove that I had exhausted all other non-lethal options to escape or diffuse the situation, or that I acted out of a level of panic and fear consistent with an average, mentally capable human. 4) Large knives do have their uses, yet. In the wilderness or on a farm....but as tools first and foremost. As any good worker knows, you choose the tool thats appropriate for the task. Historically people did carry around swords and large daggers, but that stopped. Why? Because the nature of the tasks changed, and the tools changed with them. If you do carry a large knife, then all the more power to you, but personally I think that in today's society, discrete, multifunctional tools are the wiser choice. I haven't read that good a post on this forum and pretty much anywhere else in a very long time. Excellently, excellently put.
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Post by Derzis on Jan 8, 2017 22:40:17 GMT
Empty handed means negociate your situation, not martial arts. If he said he f your mother, ask polite if he used condoms, number from 1 to 10 and at 8 hit his perplexed face with all you got if you really feel to retaliate. And run. Self defense is an awesome responsibility, and not to be taken lightly. You pull and use a lethal device and MANY lives will change forever (legally, physically, spiritually) in the blink of an eye. It is good that you (I feel) value human life so much, regardless of our discussions and quibbling over the details. Finally we come to a full circle. I value more my life than ego trashed in the alley, because most of the time this is the situation. And to end this, I am one of the obsessed guys who love their tiny knives - SAK - and I would never think to cary a big blade other than in wilderness for camp chores and fun in the woods. And some Canadian wisdom regarding knife and bears in the woods:
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 22:51:30 GMT
If I simply reply most of you guys are twits, how many will reply that I must be looking for attention, or openly flaming looking for an extended troll fest? Let us begin with age. I am a 62 yo impetuous perturbatuer. What's your excuse
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Post by howler on Jan 8, 2017 22:53:04 GMT
Self defense is an awesome responsibility, and not to be taken lightly. You pull and use a lethal device and MANY lives will change forever (legally, physically, spiritually) in the blink of an eye. It is good that you (I feel) value human life so much, regardless of our discussions and quibbling over the details. Finally we come to a full circle. I value more my life than ego trashed in the alley, because most of the time this is the situation. And to end this, I am one of the obsessed guys who love their tiny knives - SAK - and I would never think to cary a big blade other than in wilderness for camp chores and fun in the woods. I'm a middle aged dude (half century old), so the pride/ego/impulse control/testosterone stuff has been replaced with wisdom/common sense long ago. I mention big blade only to a niche of individuals who are (for various reasons) not comfortable carrying firearms, and have the choice/desire in carrying the largest blade they are comfortable with (as a bigger blade is still more effective than a small one). But the discussion is options...maybe a staff, cane, pepper spray, etc...is better, or even in tandem. Young crazy dudes should carry nothing more than "comfy pillows", as they are indeed more a danger to themselves with potentially lethal devices.
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Post by howler on Jan 8, 2017 23:00:14 GMT
Self defense is an awesome responsibility, and not to be taken lightly. You pull and use a lethal device and MANY lives will change forever (legally, physically, spiritually) in the blink of an eye. It is good that you (I feel) value human life so much, regardless of our discussions and quibbling over the details. Finally we come to a full circle. I value more my life than ego trashed in the alley, because most of the time this is the situation. And to end this, I am one of the obsessed guys who love their tiny knives - SAK - and I would never think to cary a big blade other than in wilderness for camp chores and fun in the woods. And some Canadian wisdom regarding knife and bears in the woods: Hah, I was so quick to respond (guess I have less impulse control than I thought ), that I didn't even see your bear jokes. The power of a Brown (Polar are worse because they are purely carnivore) bear is simply staggering.
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Post by Derzis on Jan 8, 2017 23:02:31 GMT
Polars are worse because they see humans as prey. Browns and blacks not yet, most of them.
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