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Post by Derzis on Jan 8, 2017 12:12:08 GMT
Why someone will chose an EDC based on self-defense capabilities of a knife? If he is paranoiac the answer is obvious though. Or if they live in a bad area, which is prone to violence. And a knife will make you popular? You cut maybe one guy one time, but sooner than expected you will end up dead or with some luck in jail.
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Post by Derzis on Jan 8, 2017 12:20:03 GMT
It's better be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in war Both have Equal chances outside the garden. Not a knife makes the warrior.
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Jan 8, 2017 12:52:00 GMT
Arfoo just what do you carry. Also gardener it war are very important you have to eat.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 13:50:51 GMT
Back for a bit and I saw this very nice question.
I generally prefer tanto knives with 6 inches of blade. Why? Because these are killing knives.
What do I use as EDC? 4 inches of a Chinese build razor like knife. That's been given an edge. That's it. I know that if I trip into crap, I will at least be able to discourage or immobilize them. NEVER in the world of SELF DEFENSE is it legit to go for a kill. NEVER. Would a lion stop another from killing an animal and eating it even though he does the same? Would an elephant stop eating leaves since, 'it needs to lose weight to run faster'? These are not the premises we are to discuss. Self-defense means 'protection of oneself and his/her belongings'. It does not mean you have to even hurt your opponent. Just make them give you an opening to scram. That's it. If you are trained enough to carry a big a** knife and use it, surely you can take the fellow down simply? Can't? Why the hell are you carrying that thing then? Small junk complex?
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Post by Jordan Williams on Jan 8, 2017 17:03:14 GMT
Or if they live in a bad area, which is prone to violence. And a knife will make you popular? You cut maybe one guy one time, but sooner than expected you will end up dead or with some luck in jail. And getting the hell beat out of you when you can't defend yourself at all makes you popular? Can't defend yourself and you'll end up dead quicker.
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Post by Derzis on Jan 8, 2017 17:31:12 GMT
I've lived in so called bad neighbourhood - but not in States - and it is all about you more than your knife. Maybe they will try you to see from what you are made of, but how you know to de-escalate a conflict is how you will be seen. A knife will not solve your problems. You take out a knife because you didn't read the situation and you got shot. PS Maybe a surf on this site will give better insight than a bigger blade: www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/bullies.htmOr not.
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Post by Faldarin on Jan 8, 2017 19:09:56 GMT
Hey... as a dabbler in psychology and human behavior, this site is an intriguing read. Thanks!
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Post by Afoo on Jan 8, 2017 20:42:17 GMT
Hey... as a dabbler in psychology and human behavior, this site is an intriguing read. Thanks! Interesting, or disturbing? ~~ A few thoughts here 1) The primary purpose of a modern knife is as tool. Not a weapon. Do not get the two confused. We do not live in a mad max world full of baddies and terrorists. My EDC is a 3 inch folder which also includes a screwdriver - guess which of the two functionalities I use most often (hint: its not sonic). 2) Large knives in an urban setting are impractical. Legal limits for us non-Americans (ie: 95% of the world's population) aside, they are big and bulky and ostentatious. Even if it IS legal to carry around a machete or sword, I am sure the panicked citizens in your neighborhood or concerned first responders arriving to their aid will not be concerned with discussing the minutiae of prohibited weapons laws. Even if you go free at the end, its still not a great way to start off the day. 3) Better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener at war you say? Sounds catchy, but what is this "war" you speak of? Recent events notwithstanding, the collapse of our society is not imminent for some time. We have systems in place to protect us, and have faith that most of our fellow citizens are respectful, lawful human beings. Yes I know some of us are reluctant to trust in others, but remember that the rest of your fellow citizens are trusting in you to do the same. The moment you arm yourself with an item intended to be used as a weapon, you severely stretch that trust. You might argue that I am putting myself at risk by not arming myself, and you would be right - but placing my safety in the hands of society, both through the law abiding nature of my fellow citizens and the law enforcement agencies we support, is an explicit part of my social contract (government has monopoly over the use of force), and is a small price to pay for maintaining the smooth function of society, at least in my jurisdiction. This is one reason I myself do not carry around large weapons. I am at no shortage of bayonets and kukris to do so, and in the past I did. I am, to the best of my knowledge, a good person, and do not believe I would use a weapon out of malice or with the intent to do harm. However, I also admit that, no matter my intentions, I can always be wrong. I also recognize that, unlike law enforcement or military personnel, I have not received specialized training, nor am I subject to the same checks and balances and disciplined command structure. To ask the person sitting next to me on the bus or the colleague who shares my office to trust their safety and well-being to my hands is a naive self-grandiose delusion. I admit that this is a personal opinion and very much shaped by the society I live in - we do not allow people to carry firearms concealed or otherwise, etc. However, I think it does reflect a strong argument for why it is socially unacceptable to carry large knives, and why many people choose not to do so. The fact that the citizens of my country (and many others) actively voted for or supported the politicians who made up these laws suggests that this sentiment is not unique or isolated. In any case, you did ask why, and there is part of my answer. Not meant to be a negative reflection on those who do carry concealed weapons and/or large knives intended for self defense, but rather some insight into the thought processes and the moral justification for an individual, and indeed an entire society*, chose not to exercise that right * In Canada, my understanding is that the use of force is limited to the government. We cannot carry weapons, or items that are intended primarily as weapons, even for self defense. If I am caught with a knife and the police ask why I was carrying it, I cannot answer with self defense. That does not prohibit me from carrying knives, I just cannot be intending to use them on other people. Even if I use it in self defense I have to prove that I had exhausted all other non-lethal options to escape or diffuse the situation, or that I acted out of a level of panic and fear consistent with an average, mentally capable human. 4) Large knives do have their uses, yet. In the wilderness or on a farm....but as tools first and foremost. As any good worker knows, you choose the tool thats appropriate for the task. Historically people did carry around swords and large daggers, but that stopped. Why? Because the nature of the tasks changed, and the tools changed with them. If you do carry a large knife, then all the more power to you, but personally I think that in today's society, discrete, multifunctional tools are the wiser choice.
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Post by howler on Jan 8, 2017 20:45:07 GMT
There's not much more I can say that others already haven't said but most applications with a knife are close quarters, in the modern world. You are not likely to be standing comfortably, ready to duel, when attacked. You might even be forced to grapple on the ground. Such instances, a small knife is favorable. Even carrying my 6" ti-lite feels way excessive to be honest. Sometimes it's better to be nimble if attacked with a knife. If you were in a combat situation, like in a jungle that you knew very well, and you had a big knife on your belt, you might find better use of it, but walking around with a giant knife in a city is way excessive Believe me, Trapdoor, your 6" ti-lite is tactically superior compared to far smaller stuff, with faster tip speed as well. Now, small knives are fantastic tools and are EASY TO CARRY...which is why people carry them and they are so popular. But tactically, bigger is better. Answer...both, one for utility, the other for...gulp...business (if legal, of course).
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Post by howler on Jan 8, 2017 20:50:20 GMT
Small knives are light wt, fast, and great for close quarters self-defense. It works with the right style of fighting. And tiny knives can be carried around the neck, or can be part of a bug-out bag without added much wt. Bigger knives are actually faster. A 10" bowie knife's tip travels twice (at least) as fast as the tip of a 5" or so blade. Watch James Keatings Riddle Of Steel or read Bill Bagwell. Smaller knives are great because they are easy to carry, concealable, and often easy to use for finer work.
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Post by howler on Jan 8, 2017 20:54:59 GMT
From a self-defense perspective, it's like people are proud of having a box cutter Certain small knives are easy to carry, conceal, and do fine detail tasks, which explain their popularity. The clear answer to you question, however, is both, as you did say "self-defense perspective", so yes, bigger is better from a tactical standpoint.
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Post by howler on Jan 8, 2017 20:58:40 GMT
Do you have any idea how much damage a simple box cutter can do in the right hands? Not that I would use a box cutter in a self defense situation. The real advantage is that small knives are easy to carry and conceal, and they do fine tasks well.
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Post by Faldarin on Jan 8, 2017 21:08:08 GMT
Sorry Afoo, I meant the site that Derzis linked. I should have quoted instead of posting a quick reply! I know it's kind of off the topic of the thread, that is why I was brief with my comment.
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Post by howler on Jan 8, 2017 21:16:15 GMT
From a self-defense perspective, it's like people are proud of having a box cutter Why someone will chose an EDC based on self-defense capabilities of a knife? If he is paranoiac the answer is obvious though. I wouldn't say that. Use for mundane tasks is primary, but putting considerations into its defensive capabilities isn't exactly paranoid. Heck, that's probably over half the male population, and more than a few women who may make these considerations. Not saying you want to walk around like the dude from Machete, btw . I have stuck my Cold Steel Vaquero fully serrated folding knife (5 1/2" blade) in my jacket a few times before going into a late night gas station. The idea being to run away, but those criminal hands reaching out to grab WILL get a nasty slash if he is stupid enough to be chasing me down and reaching out (the idea behind my choice for the Vaquero design). I also have a fully serrated Spyderco Endura based on this principle, run and slash at hands, wrists...not stand, stab, grapple, which would happen if cornered and out of running ability (as you REALLY don't want to be in a standing knife fight, because probability of hospital or morgue visit is high for everyone).
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Post by howler on Jan 8, 2017 21:25:02 GMT
Walking around with a gigantic knife isn't cool, you look like you're trying to compensate for something and the apparent attitude for small blades all but confirms it. 99.99% of your applications for an edc are going to be opening packages, occassionally in extreme situations you might cut fruit. Swaggering around and live action roleplaying the part of an Operator is something most well adjusted people grow out of. I like my big silly nimravus, but it'd be ridiculous to walk around town or take it to the office. For people who are not comfortable with firearms, a bigger knife is a more effective form of self defense. In such a case, the choice would be the biggest knife a person is comfortable carrying. Environment would certainly dictate level of "silliness" (urban city v. rural country). You would still carry a small utility knife for everyday tasks (imagine opening an envelope at the mailbox with a 12" blade CS Natchez bowie in front of a horrified neighbor).
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Post by howler on Jan 8, 2017 21:31:26 GMT
I think that if you are carrying a knife and you aren't using it for every day tasks, It can be seen as you looking for an opportunity. In a court of law I think that would speak to motive. Carrying a box cutter though is not terribly suspicious. Carry a kerambit though, that is recognised as a fighting knife and you would be hard pressed to argue that it was for self defense or for every day carry. Knives are an incredibly offensive and "scary" weapon to most people. A box cutter though, the right type, can be used defensively without employing the blade. If you want a self defense weapon, get a kubotan and learn how to effectively use it. I agree. And a walking cane also makes a great self defense weapon -- my son's dojo had classes where they trained with a simple cane. No court of police issues walking with a cane. I have a walking cane as well, though it is technically a sword cane (CS heavy duty). I'd probably do the smart thing and just use the in-pulled cane...but better to be judged by twelve than carried by six (so there is the "nuclear" option).
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Post by howler on Jan 8, 2017 21:37:56 GMT
From a self-defense perspective, it's like people are proud of having a box cutter From a combat perspective, fighting against another knife or in a melee situation, longer is much better in my opinion. That's if you already have the knife out and and are aware of the attack though. Self defense knife... I'm kind of with everyone else here: a knife isn't necessarily a great option for self defense (unless you can't carry a gun). Instead of carrying a knife for backup, I'd probably just carry a second gun. A knife may be an option as a back-up self defense weapon if you're looking for something lighter than a gun though. But then there's all the paranoia and stigma associated with knives. Cannot argue with this.
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stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
Posts: 7,647
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Post by stormmaster on Jan 8, 2017 21:38:28 GMT
tiny knives are almost always useful, and oh so ez to carry
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Post by howler on Jan 8, 2017 21:39:44 GMT
If the bad guys take away your knife and use it against you, a tiny knife is saver. And no crossguard! Without a crossguard it's much easier to pull it out of your ... Haha, drink.
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Post by howler on Jan 8, 2017 21:42:59 GMT
It's better be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in war Which would explain why the warriors garden is nothing but stubs, and why the gardener in the war is...nothing but stubs. Gulp.
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