|
Post by YlliwCir on May 25, 2008 3:45:48 GMT
Ren-wax has been working well for me, I just thought to try the metal-glo since I had it and was running low on the wax. Sounds like a bad idea on second thought. Thanks for the heads up.
|
|
|
Post by kidcasanova on May 26, 2008 8:04:24 GMT
Hmm, I don't know, Brenno. I just checked some of my blades that haven't been out of there scabbards in a while and they look okay. I have noticed some surface rust occationally if I don't get them dry enough after use. After a good cutting session I usually clean them with "Neverdull" and then reapply the ren-wax. Were you keeping them in leather sheaths? I ask because no matter how much ren-wax I put on my Gen2 Pompeii, it would start to rust when I tryed to keep it in that crappy leather sheath. I don't reckon you got some pics afore you cleaned them? I think I'll get some "tuff-cloth" to be on the safe side. Ric, I use Nevr-Dull as well, but it's an abrasive metal polish, like Brasso. I dont use it on my blades (only to polish the furniture). Are we talking about the same stuff here? Bren, you gotta start telling us this stuff in FARENHEIT! ;D ;D
|
|
|
Post by YlliwCir on May 26, 2008 19:16:11 GMT
I think it's the same stuff, Kid, it's a wadding with petroleum distillates. Is this not a good idea either, lol? I been using it for a couple years, haven't noticed any ill effects. Removes rust and such rather well. I fly blind much of the time.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 26, 2008 20:08:31 GMT
I use brasso on my blades, no problems, just make sure you clean it properly afterwards and reoil. All metal polish brands are abrasive, its what they're supposed to do, its just a really really fine grit!
|
|
|
Post by hotspur on May 26, 2008 21:02:12 GMT
I have yet to try Renaissance Wax, mostly because I have never run into on a shelf when I'm out spending. In the states, a couple of woodworking sites actually have a better price than the American distributor for Picreator products. My understanding is that a little can go a long way. More and more professional conservators are moving away from it in favor of plain old paste waxes. There are a few good conservator e-lists and related instances where completely removing R-wax has been shown to be problematic. I would not use any microcrystalline or silica based products on a blade that would, say, see a traditional Japanese stone polish. It will even plug up wet dry papers. The only polishing creme I am aware of that indicates it leaves any protective coating is Happich Simi-Chrome. My tube from the 1970s that I gleeped at about a third full is finally needing replacement. I use it mostly on jewelry and optics these days. The abrasives in Nevr-Dull are ground quartz and china clay. It is actually grittier than a good many other polishes but that doesn't keep me from using it for cleaning blades. It can leave scratches if you really lean into it but I use it lightly with good effect for cleaning antiques. It is not a protectant and should be rinsed off with your favorite cleaner. What I also use in combination with it is a product called Liquid Wrench. The combination of the two is how I often soften and lift active rust on old blades. There are at least one hundred and one CLP (cleaner, protectant, lubricant) products out there and most find a favorite that works for them. The Tuff cloths, unless I am sorely mistaken, are predominately a silicone based system. A can of silicone spray costs a couple of bucks generically and soft cloth is cheap. Some keep a favored oiled cloth in a plasic bag and keep it handy when cutting. I do similarly and tend to wipe stuff down as I go along but it is mostly with silicone saturated cloths or paper goods. The oils and silicone mix just fine, btw. For others, only the entire traditional tea ceremony like Japanese methodology appropriate. the basics really are all the same. Clean, dry, protect. oils will attract dust to bare blades and unless openly displayed pieces are free from the dust, these "motes" in the oil will wick moisture through to the blade. I would use a fresh clean cloth to apply R-wax. I know some use their fingers but remember that salts are not good. I know my skin chemistry rots lots of metals and keep that in mind when handling blades. In normal circumstance, making sure the blade is cleaned afterwards is enough before whatever protective measures one is using. Some swear by the whole Picreator line up of products for conservation and restoration, I have found methods that work well for me but may try some of their line up at some point. Cheers Hotspur; may try some Ballistol as well, just because I never have. It is reported as enviromentally friendly and edible
|
|
|
Post by YlliwCir on May 26, 2008 21:33:12 GMT
This silicone spray is becoming attractive to me. I just ordered some tuff-cloth, I don't know how long these last tho I may give the spray a try after they're used up.
I haven't noticed any build up of the ren-wax, tho I really don't pay that much attention to the appearance of my blades.
Hotspur a question, would nevr-dull take the ren-wax off? I use it before I reapply and kind of assumed ( ya I know) it was.
|
|
|
Post by hotspur on May 26, 2008 22:18:11 GMT
The difficulty in completly removing R-wax is it's near molecular nature. I had posted links to some of these articles in the past and will try to dig them up again and repost one particular dissertation. In one, the related story was precisely that the R-wax was preserving not just the metal but underlying and progressive issues. Not oxidation, per say but previously applied treatments that were deteriorating. It is pretty tenacious stuff and even has some cleaning/abrasive nature of its own.
I look at ND more as a system than just a cleaner. I use the wadding as an abrasive carrier for its own and complimentary agents such as LW, mentioned above. I also use cotton balls the same way, even Q-tips and diffrent grades of erasers (See, the SBG guides) Other products try to do it all as well but generally mlld solvent type solutions are the best for cleaning. What each will cut varies. Even warm/hot soapy water is quite effective for greases and not uncommonly used by black powder enthusiasts as a peliminary barrel scrub. One could do a lot worse than have a can of brake drum/rotor cleaner and a can of silicone spray on hand.
I tend to use lots of things I have laying around for a never ending list of maintenance, repair and conservation. Perhaps silly sounding or odd things like spray starch for cotton tsuka-ito or brown shoe polish and ground coffee mixed with superglue for a recent (and quite nearly invisible) repair on an early 1800s horn grip.
Most of the care issues are really pretty simplistic. The fact that it is a sword does not change the characteristics of any one component and the care or repair of any component is really pretty straight forward. There are going to be alternatives and prefrences for each, right across the board and reall reasons why some favorites really aren't that great. (blatant troll; take Neatsfoot and mink oils for hard leather care as something best not done puppy poo comes to mind ;D).
I'll try to find a lengthy post I made about R-Wax eleswhere but can't promise when it might appear here. I have posted some of the articles here previously as well (in very similar threads).
Cheers
Hotspur; most get the basics down pretty quickly and it is really personal prefrence from there
|
|
|
Post by hotspur on May 26, 2008 23:12:55 GMT
Here is the wax article for now. Interesting reading for me when I found it and I have shared it before. aic.stanford.edu/jaic/articles/jaic35-01-001.htmlAnother site I often share becasue it has some interesting metal conservation technical notes w3.gsa.gov/web/p/hptp.nsf/This page of notes on polishes, particularlyThis list is expansive and searchable. Those with interests in advanced conservation and preservation might find it worthwhile reading. www.dmoz.org/Reference/Museums/Museum_Resources/Conservation_and_Preservation/One could find posts and exchanges in there I have quoted about ND and other products. I'd ramble on and include extracts from what I have experienced on a larger scale but the truth is I have done so here before and keyword searches plus my user should bring them up on a good many boards. I don't consider myself an authority on any of it but do consider myself pretty well read on it and can really only offer the others with sincere interest the same opportunity. Many posting to boards want just the quick answers and that puzzles me because most pages have a handy dandy reference for frequently asked questions. Excluding sword boards and simply working basic questions via search engines in general will bring up countless hours of reading on any subject. I'm honestly kind of terse and unresponsive with the quick answers because there are just too many variables and other factors to share in any given thread or face to face conversation. A quick, simple and one word anwer to how one can remove R-Wax would be solvent. Then the twenty questions starts all over again ;D ;D ;D Anyway, some reading for those that might and a "lick me" for those that might have expected something more direct. Cheers Hotspur; I'm often researching three or four topics a day myself, quite independant of any discussion forum. Sometimes a quick nudge is helpful but waiting for one doesn't keep me from other reading/research
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 27, 2008 0:09:48 GMT
Arizona is a pretty dry place compared with were most of you live, but we do have our monsoon season and the humidity does go up for a few months.
A few years back when my collection was primarily high dollar swords I of course became very concerned about protecting the blades. I listened to a major manufacturer of swords and began using Break-Free CLP. Things seemed fine for months. I would pull all the swords out about once a month and re-oil, keeping them in individual foam lined plastic gun cases.
Then one day, ... I literally almost had a heart attack as I opened a case containing a $3000 sword, .... and there were some small spots on it. I couldn't believe it!
I switched to 3-IN-One oil after that, due to things I had read on SFI. This oil seemed to work well and didn't have quite the odor the CLP had. Like all oils however it was messy.
It suddenly dawned on me one day that all my guns were protected with a simple wipe down with a silicone gun cloth, why wouldn't that work for swords as well. I tried it with great success on a cheaper sword, and have been using that method to protect my swords ever since. Quick easy, and that silicone doesn't seem to evaporate at all over time.
I would recommend the cloth by HOPES as it seems to have much more silicone in it than others you can buy. Also, I could be wrong but I don't agree that spraying a cloth with silicone spray lube is the same as a silicone gun cloth. I believe the spray may have some solvent in it so it acts as a cleaner and lube, where as the cloth contains only silicone, no solvents.
Anyway, thats my story and as I said good old silicone gun cloths work fine for me.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 27, 2008 1:15:17 GMT
Hotspur- thanks for the link, fascinating reading. I don't think i will be heating any xylene any time soon though. ;D
|
|
|
Post by hotspur on May 27, 2008 1:26:16 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2008 15:57:40 GMT
Personally I just go with straight mineral oil which you can get at any grocery store and havent had any problems at all even after leaving it for a month or more
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2008 16:49:44 GMT
-snip- ; may try some Ballistol as well, just because I never have. It is reported as enviromentally friendly and edible Thanks for the reminder as I have a substantial amount of samples from Ballistol I can use. I think when they refer to Ballistol as being edible I think they referred to lubricating tools which may be used in food preparation. The residual lubricant is not harmful in very minute amounts but I would not chug the stuff. The smell is horrendous! I have read that during the second world war Ballistol could even be used as temporary expedient antiseptic for field wounds. It was used for all kinds of other applications as well which it was not truly meant for. Here's a list. www.firehawktech.com/v/vspfiles/V4_Backup/b%5Eindex01.asp
|
|
|
Post by Brendan Olszowy on Jun 2, 2008 16:58:06 GMT
I have my little experiment running by the way. Started 25th May. I have several groups: *Renwax rubbed thin *Renwax Heavy *Autosol Left on *Autosol rubbed off *Shell MC Gear Oil *And Belray Waterproof Grease. Theres between 2 and 4 in each group. I have lots of blades I think the grease will win. One of the Renwax blades seems to be specking already. But I'll hold judgement. Will keep yus posted.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2008 18:11:46 GMT
may try some Ballistol as well, just because I never have. It is reported as enviromentally friendly and edible The only problem I've heard of with ballistol is with the mix of water/ballistol people use as a cleaning solution (often called moose milk by some old timers). It isn't a solution at all. It's a suspension. Which means it will eventually separate and you can have water sitting directly on steel with predictable results. You have to wipe everything down and then re-oil with straight ballistol after using the cleaning solution.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2009 17:06:33 GMT
Hi It sounds like you may have been unlucky & sealed moisture in with the Renwax. I used to use Renwax for my knives. Never had a problem with it. It kept the steel in numerous different types of high carbon , sanmai & folded blades perfect when in storage. Down side. It's a pig to get off. It's no good for displayed blades in cabinet etc. I now use Tuf cloth for all my knives & swords, even those on display. No complaints after several years of usage The Marine Tuf cloth just has to be used to be believed. I have protected raw steel car ramps left outide through winter. No corrosion. Cheers On the TUF cloth I agree; I have the same- I used it for a couple of years til the cloth dried out on me. Who knew having swords could be such a time consuming and arduous task? LOL Take the good with the bad, right?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2009 21:16:11 GMT
Yeah Brenno, Queenslander, feel your pain bloody aussie humidity it just rots my blades, have them coated with WD-40 often, lanolin spray hasnt been to bad, my father in law ex RAAF avionics guy said to use normal Vasoline (petroleum jelly) on them, thick coat, he said aircraft parts were preserved with that most times. I'll let you know how well that works.
|
|