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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2016 14:38:26 GMT
Of course bluetrain. It actually makes sense. Running is not as such dependent upon your strength as it is dependent upon the resultant components of gravity and the friction used with the ground. The resultant would be lesser than the maximum at all times if gravity is higher, due to which you will have to bend over less to gain the same speed for which you have to bend over more for the lesser load.
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Post by bluetrain on Nov 14, 2016 15:06:29 GMT
The video of the individual training while wearing armor was wonderful, eye-opening, in fact. It makes me wonder if Japanese armor was really any more flexible.
I suspect that the design of Japanese armor of the classical variety that you might see in a museum was designed or evolved to its most evolved state (before it became obsolete) was influenced by Japanese fighting styles. The Japanese helmet certain was and, I think, a reflection of their particular style of sword and the overhand cut that was apparently central to their fencing, if you can use that word.
Western armor, which is to say, European armor, was produced in a fairly wide variety of styles over the centuries and some of the variations were pure style. That is, they weren't designed entirely for reasons of combat efficiency but simply because that's the way they were being made that year. But some armor was also designed for jousting rather than the battlefield and some was designed for show or parade use, just like Western stock saddles. Those are the kinds that have ended up in museums more than other kinds.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2016 15:26:39 GMT
The video of the individual training while wearing armor was wonderful, eye-opening, in fact. It makes me wonder if Japanese armor was really any more flexible. I suspect that the design of Japanese armor of the classical variety that you might see in a museum was designed or evolved to its most evolved state (before it became obsolete) was influenced by Japanese fighting styles. The Japanese helmet certain was and, I think, a reflection of their particular style of sword and the overhand cut that was apparently central to their fencing, if you can use that word. Western armor, which is to say, European armor, was produced in a fairly wide variety of styles over the centuries and some of the variations were pure style. That is, they weren't designed entirely for reasons of combat efficiency but simply because that's the way they were being made that year. But some armor was also designed for jousting rather than the battlefield and some was designed for show or parade use, just like Western stock saddles. Those are the kinds that have ended up in museums more than other kinds. Exactly my train of thought. That is why 'fantasy' armor is not as useless as 'fantasy' sword designs. (Unless it is a Mithril Mail Shirt on a Hobbit). So I am not much worried about the design. More about the technical aspects I need to keep in mind. Seeing pgandy's video, a trainer (shoe) is actually more constricting than a plate armor boot.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2016 16:35:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2016 16:39:46 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2016 13:54:48 GMT
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Nov 15, 2016 14:27:35 GMT
The problem is that I can't afford it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2016 15:23:06 GMT
The problem is that I can't afford it. Not many can. I am in the same boat. Doesn't mean we can't speculate. That's what this thread is for. I do actually plan on building this, though how is another matter best left for another time. I don't think we need armor that tough now-a-days anyways. If we did, soldiers wouldn't go against seriously dangerous weapons with slight armor and more weight in their packs. Than dedicated to armor. Still, I want badass looking, convertible-to-EDC armor
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2016 15:23:43 GMT
All ideas are appreciated. Even if it sounds stupid and you are sure it's stupid, go ahead and try giving some logic. You never know.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2016 16:53:18 GMT
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Nov 15, 2016 17:23:36 GMT
No Space-Marine? But I think this or the star wars stormtrooper armor would give the absolute best protection, like the most protective armor of old: plate over mail over padding. Resistant against cut, thrust and blunt force. I would start with a suit of cut/thrust resistant clothing and double it or add hard plates where I think it is needed.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2016 17:39:46 GMT
No Space-Marine? But I think this or the star wars stormtrooper armor would give the absolute best protection, like the most protective armor of old: plate over mail over padding. Resistant against cut, thrust and blunt force. I would start with a suit of cut/thrust resistant clothing and double it or add hard plates where I think it is needed. My point is a base layer armor. Something that can be built into a proper armor but is sufficient for EDC itself. You can always add a nicely built and decked out armor on it😄
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Nov 15, 2016 17:44:12 GMT
What speaks against cut/thrust resistant clothing as base layer?
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Post by Derzis on Nov 15, 2016 18:00:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2016 19:42:37 GMT
What speaks against cut/thrust resistant clothing as base layer? I was referring to the hard plates. And nothing does. That is the idea anyways.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2016 19:46:46 GMT
That is interesting. I did know paper could be a viable alternative (phone books make perfect bullet proof armor if need be). But was not aware that it was actually used.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2016 19:53:13 GMT
Ok, so I think that a proper backing, like a few (2-3) layers of a cut resistant cloth can make for a very cut resistant armor and base layer. Even one is very enough. But just to be safe. Put a few layers together or two over some very thin padding material. Kind of making a gambeson. Just lighter and less thicker.
Ok, now I have some things I need help about: 1- Leather as armor, how effective etc. 2- Scale armor? 3- Mail, Over cut-resistant gambeson. Effective?
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Nov 15, 2016 22:21:45 GMT
Ok, now I have some things I need help about: 1- Leather as armor, how effective etc. 2- Scale armor? 3- Mail, Over cut-resistant gambeson. Effective? 1 - Poor. There's a reason why rawhide was used for armour much more often than leather. 2 - It works. Can be heavy. Can be high maintenance compared to plate. 3 - Sure. Mail over gambeson works quite well. To stop high energy arrows, it helps to have a second gambeson on top, but otherwise mail over a thin gambeson is fine. Since the mail is very cut-resistant, the gambeson underneath doesn't need to be cut-resistant (or thick).
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Nov 15, 2016 22:39:17 GMT
Thank you for the information on paper armour. Armour fascinates me as much as arms, perhaps more so. The article raises as many questions as it answers. I am sure Korean paper of that period does not compare with modern day paper. They state 60 combined layers of paper and clothe and thickness of 1”. I find my .44” thick gambeson stiff. I believe that clothe armour in the past was thicker than what we know today. One English king, since forgotten to me, ordered on his preparatory marching order that his men were to have gambesons of 25-30 layers of clothe. Another thing with the Chinese armour that made me wonder is that is a lot of cloth, how did they protect it during rain. Possibly water proofing the paper but the cloth? That is a lot of material to soak up the water adding to the weight and general discomfort.
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Post by Derzis on Nov 16, 2016 0:16:45 GMT
Welcome
Maybe they were waterproofing just the outside layers, or they were using something on top of them. Interesting anyway. I wouldn't mind to try to see what 1" of "silk and paper" layers can do once they are the liner of a jacket.
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