pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Nov 14, 2016 2:21:35 GMT
How much do these different things weigh anyway, especially a mail shirt? One from Windlass on KofA is listed as 33 pounds (hip length, 3/4 sleeves, no hood and extra large size). Another one was about 27 pounds, large size. It was hard to compare plate armor because the coverage is different and it comes in parts. One breastplate was less than 10 pounds, another cuirass (front and back plates) was also under ten pounds. Overall, however, the pounds add up and you would have to become accustomed to wearing the stuff. I am not sure about your question. If you are talking about across the board differences, then the differences would depend of ring diameter, gauge, and style, not to mention material. For instance I went to MRL’s page and found two shirts. One at 31½ lb. of 17 gauge rings of 3/16” dia. The other weighed 23 lb. of 16 ga rings of 7/16” dia. The heavy one was 31” long compared to 33” but had a 1” greater chest. Mail garments can vary considerably. As for plate armour the gauge has a big influence on weight, the design should not be forgotten. Much plate on the market is 18 ga., a little thin in my opinion for the important pieces such as a breast plate, but is more comfortable and more than sufficient for customing. My hat is 14 ga. reinforced with steel stripes. I have bracers of 16 ga. You are correct, those pounds began to add up and I'll say all too quickly. I have mentioned nothing of the heat retention which can be a problem in itself. I envy those living in more northern climates in that respect.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2016 2:49:12 GMT
Love these responses! I think I will read for a while about mail armor. One thing though: Which sort of materials do you know of for a mail armor?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2016 3:37:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2016 3:37:40 GMT
That is epic and more movement than I expected.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Nov 14, 2016 3:50:25 GMT
Historically wrought iron, today steel (stainless or not), titanium and aluminium only for reanactment.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2016 3:52:10 GMT
Titanium also for re-enactment?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2016 4:25:21 GMT
Don't know whether this is any good or not but it did give me food for thought and research. Also a very interesting idea.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2016 4:27:00 GMT
I could always make a thin Gambeson out of the Cut resistant and stab resistant clothing...
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Nov 14, 2016 5:34:11 GMT
A bit old and educational. Notice how tightly the rings are woven with authentic mail. Nothing like the best made today.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Nov 14, 2016 6:10:29 GMT
Titanium also for re-enactment? I don't know, I looked it up and with 2000-3000 $ it's very expensive only for show. Titanium is afaik more brittle than steel. My mail is made of not-stainless butted spring steel, as only butted it's more for show too. But I paid only 190 Euro for it. I just wanted to feel a bit like an early bavarian warrior of the 6th century (b.t.w.: "...varian" = "warrior").
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2016 6:38:26 GMT
Yeah, that is too much for a show armor. I want something functional AndiTheBarvarian. I will go through this video too, thanks pgandy ! Here's one I was watching after the above one. It's more of a Mail 101. Still good I think.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2016 10:05:07 GMT
Mr. pgandy, may good luck be your companion forever. That video was SUPERB! It has actually given me a whole lot to munch my brain on. Who knew that the plate armor was so very flexible!!! (Ok maybe only I didn't. Only exposure I have had to armor is in my martial arts and for that Gladatoria Pommel Missile thing. And trust me, Thai armor is far less impressive. It is a very minor part of their Martial Way).
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Nov 14, 2016 10:43:23 GMT
Colder climate countries seem to match better with armor because of the overheating problem, at least you need so much clothing there, that it has some armor effect anyway.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Nov 14, 2016 11:29:57 GMT
Love these responses! I think I will read for a while about mail armor. One thing though: Which sort of materials do you know of for a mail armor? Historically wrought iron, today steel (stainless or not), titanium and aluminium only for reanactment. Apart from the usual wrought iron seen in historical mail, there was some use of steel (Japanese mail, 19th century European-made mail for export), brass/bronze for decorative patterns in mail in Europe and India, and elsewhere, and brass for Philippine mail. Most modern mail for practical non-reenactment use as armour is stainless steel. For non-armour modern use, there's brass for electrical protection. Also aluminium, titanium, silver, gold, etc. for jewelry. Plastic for lightweight movie mail.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2016 12:13:43 GMT
Love these responses! I think I will read for a while about mail armor. One thing though: Which sort of materials do you know of for a mail armor? Historically wrought iron, today steel (stainless or not), titanium and aluminium only for reanactment. Apart from the usual wrought iron seen in historical mail, there was some use of steel (Japanese mail, 19th century European-made mail for export), brass/bronze for decorative patterns in mail in Europe and India, and elsewhere, and brass for Philippine mail. Most modern mail for practical non-reenactment use as armour is stainless steel. For non-armour modern use, there's brass for electrical protection. Also aluminium, titanium, silver, gold, etc. for jewelry. Plastic for lightweight movie mail. Thanks Timo! I want things and materials for actual armor though. I have found a composite material which still has been added to research list. In the meantime, I have found a shop that has a minimal yet decent collection of knives and stuff imported from US. Just buying Cold Steel etc folders. The best part is that they have the one thing I am not allowed to import, Oakley Factory Pilots! So starts my armory. I digress, back to armor. There is still research to......oooooohhh! Look at that folding krambit and that tomahawk! (My mother is giving me the evil eye👁)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2016 12:21:27 GMT
Ok, my mother just pushed me out after I managed to buy a few things. Alas, they have to re-stock my size in the gloves. Sorry for the excitement. It's just been too long since I have had so many beauties in my possession. So back to the thread.....materials people!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2016 12:23:04 GMT
Question: Riveted mail good. Butted mail crap. Got it. What if we weld the rings like Shad said in the Video I posted of mail? Like, instead of middle ring being welded, just weld them all?
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Nov 14, 2016 12:34:30 GMT
Welded mail is good, if the welds are good. Better than riveted.
Some Japanese "butted" mail is very good, too. Not really butted, but 2 or 3 complete loops (without a rivet or weld). Especially when made with steel, this can be very strong.
(The point of mentioning some of the stuff they make mail for jewelry out of is that if you want to play with a small piece of titanium mail, you might be able to find it ready-made.)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2016 12:50:30 GMT
Would titanium make good weapon grade mail? Chemistry is not my strong point. And I love only Biology.
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Post by bluetrain on Nov 14, 2016 13:44:47 GMT
I was referring to nothing more than the actual weights of all of these things and I realize there would be wide variation. Given what things weigh, it would seem likely that foot soldiers would tend to wear less armor, as well as armor of lesser quality, than mounted soldiers. Modern soldiers carry a lot of weight as it is. It is claimed that soldiers, beginning with the Romans, have always had to carry about the same weight in battle. I would also suggest that those very same soldiers would be carrying less and less weight as a campaign wears on and things get "lost." Must of the weight modern soldiers carry now, in addition to those new-fangled flak vests, consists of expendable ammunition and anti-tank weapons.
All the same, once one becomes accustomed to the weight, which should happen, it wouldn't affect the motion of your arms (not your weapons--your arms and hands) but your ability to run would be hampered to some degree, no doubt.
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