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Post by Adrian Jordan on Oct 2, 2016 22:23:24 GMT
It's here, the day you never thought would come. The Elite Round. Stay tuned.
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Mikeeman
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Post by Mikeeman on Oct 2, 2016 22:27:14 GMT
FiSBG Elite RoundYes, it is that day you thought would never arrive, but alas, here it is. Unfortunately, there were only two blades turned in. Tom didn't have time, Driggers was a little burnt out, Jeffery was too busy with other orders, and I had literally every piece of equipment I own break. So that was fun. Anyway, there were still two turned in. So let's talk about 'em, shall we? The rules stated in our chat were:
"Rules will be a single handed, single edged, blade at 16"-18". Plan to cut mats, small branches, and the like. Should be well balanced and not tiring to use. Use will be utility/defense machete. Obviously, it can't perfectly be both, but that's up to you to decide where to land it. Time limit will be 16 hours and fit/finish will be a factor due to the longer time limit. Due date is at my doorstep no later than Sept 10. Will be judged within 2 weeks time unless I die between now and then." Initial ThoughtsI'll start with Henry's (Dig's-rocks-N'-stuff). It's a very interesting blade. And extremely well finished. And the "marble" pattern, or whatever he called it, on the blade looks stunning. 16 1/4" blade with very crisp geometry with a nod to an almost cutlass type style. The handle on the other hand... Well, 13 1/2" doesn't exactly scream "single handed." And because the handle is so long, and the handle scales are so thick (stick out 3/4" on both sides), it puts the balance almost exactly at the choil thing. Given that it is supposed to be a survival/defense type of blade, I would have liked a balance point MUCH farther up the blade. Because of the odd balance, it's a little odd to hold. Unless you're holding it at the very bottom of the handle, it feels more like you're holding a small staff instead of a blade.Minus the balance issue, I think this is a very well put together blade. Everything feels very solid and would appear to be able to take a lot of abuse.Unfortunately, I have a little more to pick at with Marc's. It has a 16 1/8" "cutting edge", but is not all that sharp. The serration, or whatever it's called, is very uneven down the blade and is rounded at the tip. The blade is straight, for the most part, but not perfectly.The handle, while 6" long, is only usable on the bottom 4" of it. If you put your hand up any higher, the guard starts to really work on your index finger knuckle. And the twists really like to dig in. And if you have bigger hands, you might as well forget swinging this thing. Neither of the scales are sealed to the tang all the way around. They are peened on with copper pins, so I doubt they'll ever be going anywhere, but I feel like it's worth mentioning. There is also extra epoxy that oozed out that could have been cleaned up, but wasn't. I WILL say, however, that the balance on this one is really more what I would want on a blade for this purpose. If you hold it in the right place, it feels like it REALLY wants to come alive. The only problem is... That's right where it makes the guard start grinding your knuckle away.TestingI really wanted to have Tatami mats for this, but after receiving the blades, I'm not all that worried about it. The balance on Henry's isn't exactly conducive to mat cutting, and I'm positive Marc's would not be able to make it through one to begin with. So I used it for what they were supposed to be made for. Choppin' thangs.Even though Henry's has the weirdest balance in the world, like mentioned before, it's EXTREMELY solid. That picture from earlier? Yeah. I had to SLAM that thing in to the stump to get it to stick. Not even a scratch in the etch. I went out and found a couple small trees to wreck.It took me a bit to figure out just exactly where to hold the thing, but you pretty much have to grip the very bottom of the handle to get any kind of chop with it. But once you do...This thing can CHOP. Especially that second image. I know there's a glare, so it's a little hard to see, but that is a completely clean cut. Perfectly flat.I only picked one small tree for Marc's, because it's not super sharp and it's on the thin side.So I had a go with it. As long as you landed the hit right in the blade's sweet spot, it sank in pretty good. It's not real sharp, but it'll bite.It didn't make any super clean cuts like Henry's, but it managed. Although the blade wasn't real happy about being used. Even though I didn't push it very hard, the blade started to bend and warp.And, like mentioned before, to really get your chop on, you have to hold it where the guard really starts to hurt your finger. It really becomes apparent when in actual use, too. It ate up my finger pretty good.With that out of the way, I went and got some bottles. Now, I know what you're thinking. "Mikeeman, why wouldn't you do the bottle cuts first?" Well, my friend, that's because I wasn't real interested in how sharp they were when I got them, as opposed to how sharp they STAYED. And that would really only show after being used.Anyway, as expected, Henry's did just fine. It was still kinda weird to swing it because of the balance, but it made extremely clean cuts with no problems.Marc's on the other hand... Well... This wasn't exactly a place I expected it to shine to begin with. The first swing batted the bottle about 30 feet away.The second cut I kind of forced it to go through the bottle. It cut it, but it was very jagged and did more ripping through it than cutting it.Final ThoughtsSo... Here's where it gets tricky.Henry's has an exceptionally well designed and executed blade. it is both tough and extremely well engineered for it's purpose. While it would make a very good, usable, fantasy blade, the handle length and balance just make it kind of weird to use. If it had only been a single handed, it probably would have been an absolute perfect blade. Because it really is nice. If Henry was the type of guy that would ever post his stuff for sale, I'd imagine it would sell damn near instantly. The balance is literally this only thing's down fall. The rest is amazing.I think if Marc would have went with a blade style that was just a tad beefier, wasn't serrated, and had a much more roomy guard, it also would have been excellent. The balance is there, and the curve in the blade makes you land a strike exactly when you'd expect to. But the thin blade, the poor cutting edge, and the guard that eats knuckles for breakfast really just make this thing unfriendly to use.If I had to pick a winner, I'd say it would be Henry. But I can't really give either a passing grade for the intended purpose. Yes, Henry's out performs Marc's, but it just really needs balanced to be a survival/defense blade. And Marc's suffered a bit from a few design errors. You guys have known me long enough to know that I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but I'm just calling it like I see it. And am by no means slamming the makers. Not to mention I'm friends with both of the makers. So they also know I'm not just ragging on them.In the end, we all win. Because it really brought together a group of really cool guys that can take a joke, laugh, drink, and just overall be ourselves. It created a community of really great people that would probably have never come together had I not started this. The future of FiSBG?In conclusion, we all had fun. It was a good run, but people got busy, there were many miscommunications, and other various problems that really kept this from taking off. We will be taking a break for a while, but not forever. I have already talked with members of our FB page, and the mods of a similar page about doing a joint competition to include more people and more judges to make this move along like it's supposed to and keep it interesting.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Oct 3, 2016 0:16:54 GMT
Thanks for the write up, Michael. I think both look great. Henry's looks clean and sleek, and Marc's looks like something out of a pirate movie or Mad Max. Great stuff.
If we do this again, I think we'd need to do a few things differently.
1. Decide each rounds subject(not necessarily the smiths, but an overseeing party, just to keep it spontaneous).
2. Find and appoint judges for each round beforehand.
3. Make sure judges are completely prepared with test types and materials before overall competition begins.
4. Make a forging schedule beforehand that the smiths can depend on.
I hope we see another round. It's be a shame if we didn't.
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Post by JGonzalez on Oct 3, 2016 0:29:22 GMT
Nice work guys! I had fun following this as it went along
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Post by chrisperoni on Oct 3, 2016 0:58:25 GMT
Cool swords. Sounds like the 1st one should have the handle cut off after the 2nd pin and the other one have the guard cut off
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Post by DigsFossils-n-Knives on Oct 3, 2016 2:46:15 GMT
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Post by DigsFossils-n-Knives on Oct 3, 2016 2:48:06 GMT
Thanks Mike for the fair, unbias assessment. Hopefully next time we have more smiths participate.
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on Oct 3, 2016 9:56:26 GMT
Am I the only one thinking that the idea behind Henry's piece was to allow for defense/fighting use when gripped far back (as you found out during chopping) and choking up to the choil for doing utility tasks? Seems to me like he put a good deal of thought into the piece, considering it was supposed to fulfill both utility and defense tasks (not an easy thing)... unfortunately the concept wasn't immediately apparent to the user it seems.
Anyway: Kudos for both participants for sticking with it and bringing this to an end! I would have liked to participate but for several reasons that's just not possible. I liked watching it happen though.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 11:22:30 GMT
Now Sir, that is some thing I would love to own!
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Post by DigsFossils-n-Knives on Oct 3, 2016 12:31:45 GMT
Am I the only one thinking that the idea behind Henry's piece was to allow for defense/fighting use when gripped far back (as you found out during chopping) and choking up to the choil for doing utility tasks? Seems to me like he put a good deal of thought into the piece, considering it was supposed to fulfill both utility and defense tasks (not an easy thing)... unfortunately the concept wasn't immediately apparent to the user it seems. Anyway: Kudos for both participants for sticking with it and bringing this to an end! I would have liked to participate but for several reasons that's just not possible. I liked watching it happen though. That is exactly what this blade was designed to do. The balance point is at/near the finger choil for utility tasks, hold it in the middle and it's for swinging, and hold it at the end for power chopping. Use it one handed or two. As I was making this blade, Mike and the other smiths recommend cutting the handle in half but it felt so good in my hands. Originally the blade had to be one handed but I talked Mike into allowing it to be either one or two handed. So I got a "pass" on that one because he could have stuck to the original scope.
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Post by DigsFossils-n-Knives on Oct 3, 2016 12:33:57 GMT
Now Sir, that is some thing I would love to own! Thank you for the complement and thank you for the inspiration. It's because of your interest in a dha/daab sword that I built this one. Let's say it's a mix between a daab and a naginata.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 13:12:47 GMT
Now Sir, that is some thing I would love to own! Thank you for the complement and thank you for the inspiration. It's because of your interest in a dha/daab sword that I built this one. Let's say it's a mix between a daab and a naginata. Thanks! Good to know.
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Mikeeman
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Post by Mikeeman on Oct 3, 2016 17:19:45 GMT
Yeah, I kinda got where he was going with it, but at the same time, it just felt dead in the hand to me. If the balance point had just been a few inches out, I think it would have felt a lot better. Even for utility work, all the weight right in the hand makes it cumbersome to use. And Asad, I currently have it. I'm sure if you bought it from Henry he wouldn't mind me shipping it to you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 18:19:23 GMT
Yeah, I kinda got where he was going with it, but at the same time, it just felt dead in the hand to me. If the balance point had just been a few inches out, I think it would have felt a lot better. Even for utility work, all the weight right in the hand makes it cumbersome to use. And Asad, I currently have it. I'm sure if you bought it from Henry he wouldn't mind me shipping it to you. I have decided I need a combat tanto knife more desperately due to Ifrit. But Henry is the one going to be make my it surely. So I think I will get that. Still, if funds permit after that and this exists, it's gonna be mine.
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Oct 3, 2016 18:31:35 GMT
Speaking as a person with an O-Tanto, you will be pleased to own one, I would imagine. From the tasks you mentioned, a blade like it, or similar, would suit your purposes fine. Feels like the perfect fighting knife to me
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 18:38:59 GMT
I know, I started in JSA and become a Shinken practitioner. Never liked it though, but the tanto styled combat knives, leaf blades, small swords with single edges and tomahawk drive me crazy
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Post by adamthedrummer on Oct 4, 2016 0:26:33 GMT
In
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Mikeeman
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Post by Mikeeman on Oct 4, 2016 0:28:33 GMT
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on Oct 4, 2016 4:53:48 GMT
Yeah, I kinda got where he was going with it, but at the same time, it just felt dead in the hand to me. If the balance point had just been a few inches out, I think it would have felt a lot better. Even for utility work, all the weight right in the hand makes it cumbersome to use. Fair enough...
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Post by Elrikk on Oct 4, 2016 6:01:13 GMT
In!
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