How this forum is run.
Sept 29, 2016 20:38:46 GMT
Post by Adrian Jordan on Sept 29, 2016 20:38:46 GMT
So, there has been for a while now a reoccurring thought among some of the forum members here, and it has manifested in forms from vague suspicions voiced to outright accusations. It is that this forum is beholden to, and thus "employees" of certain manufacturers. It has gone from Cheness, to DSA to Ronin Katana(most recent). As such, any voicing of criticism or recommendation against said manufacturer can(and will) result in ostracizing on or banning from the forum. Although this has been gone over before, I wanted to consolidate some of reasons for these thoughts and why, at present, the above mentioned action will not be taken, as well as give you a better view on how we, the moderators, work here.
First, we moderators are all volunteers. We don't get paid or receive remuneration for our services. We do this because we were at one point approached and offered the position, and feel that the forum is important enough to us to take the time to keep it cleaned up and resolve disputes and the such. No current moderator has any sort of professional or monetary stake in any manufacturer or vendor. If a vendor does well, we don't see any of the profits. All profits made from the SBG Sword Store go to running the main page and the forum. We moderators do not have anything to do with the main page or the store. We don't know who runs them or have any influence. They are completely separate entities.
In the past, we've had a moderator that had a professional relationship with vendors and ran their own store that sold a few different brands. They had strong opinions, and many of these opinions tended to run in favor of brands they sold. That person is no longer a moderator, and has not been for some time. I'd like to mention that the person had been a longtime member who was well respected and who's opinion was valued among most of us at the time, and at the time of their departure was suffering from serious issues. Unfortunately, they left under less than ideal circumstances. It has since been decided that a person with a stake in a vendor should not be in a position of authority. Even if they are morally spotless and 100% free of profit-driven thoughts, there is still a doubt that creeps in when a brands vendor tells you to buy their stuff, not the other.
If a brand gets mentioned by a moderator here, it is their own personal opinion. I often recommend Musashi, Munetoshi, Hanwei, Huawei, Kris Cutlery and the current shadowy overlord of the forum, Ronin Katana. Why? I've either had great personal experiences with the brand, or have seen many, many recommendations and trust the authors of them. If Musashi sells a ton of Shirakawas, or Hanwei a bunch of Raptors or Ronin a slew of Dojo Pro's off of my recommendations I don't get anything, not even a thanks. It's the same with the other moderators.
You will not be reprimanded or shown the door if you provide criticism of a brand the SBG Store sells so long as your post follows the same rules everybody must follow. Remain civil, try to be constructive, don't be antagonistic, use crude language, or make inappropriate or threatening statements towards other members. If you can be civil, nobody loses. Arguments are fine, disagreeing is fine, criticism is fine, all as long as the rules of posting are followed. In my tenure, I have never banned a member who spoke against myself, the site or any of the stores brands. I have banned those that did so while being overly rude or threatening and refused to follow the rules while doing so. I often see these people join other groups and complain that they got stepped on by the man for speaking the truth and nothing more, or claim that they left of their own accord because oppression and cronyism abound. I have also never seen any of my fellow moderators or the site owner do so since I started moderating. On the contrary, they, like myself, don't believe that a brand or vendor, our own included, should be coddled. Everybody makes mistakes, every manufacturer sends out lemons, every vendor messes up occasionally. If you gloss over or do not mention the mistake then the manufacturer and/or vendor cannot fix that issue in future runs. If you do not contact a vendor for satisfaction when you get a bad product then they don't have a chance to prove that their customer service is up to par. So speak up, and when doing so mention to us if you've contacted the vendor or not and what their response was. As buyers it is our responsibility to keep sellers in check just as much as it is theirs to provide quality service and products.
Paul Southern, the owner and Admin of the site, leaves the running of the forum to us. He does not issue us directives beyond the main one, which is to enforce the rules and not turn the place into Cabrini Green. He's never poked his head in and said "We gotta move these ones, push them hard!" He does not admit or eject members. It is entirely up to us to maintain standards and keep the forum running.
As mentioned, the current "bad guy" is Ronin Katana. They are sold in the store, get recommended a lot, and have their own sub-forum and site representative. Why? Because they asked. If Hanwei, Munetoshi, Dynasty Forge or any other wanted a similar set up they would be welcomed. Most big manufacturers tend to stay off of forums, which is a pity. They could get a lot of direct feedback from people who know what they are talking about if they did. The site representative is Daniel, and he is a former moderator. He stepped down because he felt that if he was going to represent a brand then being a moderator would cast suspicion on himself, the brand and the forum.
So, understanding all of this hopefully you have a better understanding of how it's done here. I also hope you now understand the following:
Adrian's Personal Rant:
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When you accuse the forum of cronyism you are, whether you realize it or not, offending the hell out of me. I personally know that what is being said is not true. If an accusation is made I can, as moderator, check the logs to see if it happened. It hasn't. You are, again, perhaps unintentionally, calling into question the credibility of the individuals who comprise the moderating staff, as we are the ones who run the site. I take my reputation here fairly seriously, as well as the reputations of the others and the forum. I know that should the forum ever become a venue for manufacturers I would step down as moderator, and likely leave the site. We are not a soap box for people to use to get over on. Our purpose is to try and guide new buyers to the best deals based on their wants and needs, to help educate each other and provide a safe, friendly environment for those passionate about our hobby to get together and improve.
.............................................................................................................................................................................................
I hope I have done something constructive here. I know that there are some who, even in the face of empirical proof, will still cling to the ideas of corporate puppets and jack-booted oppression. I'm not talking to you. I also know that we have a few members who may not trust this or have a hard time believing what I say based on treatment shown them in the past. I'm sorry for that, but we're a whole different group now(and most of the old group was very solid) and rules have been put in place to see that things like that don't happen again. Some of you already know most of this and probably feel like you wasted your time reading a wall of text. Sorry.
I'm not locking this thread. Please feel free to chime in with questions, request clarifications, or speak on an incident that has happened that you feel is in contradiction to what I've said. A great way to prove that something improper is happening is to take a screenshot of the posts. Make sure you get the date and time, as well as the name of the poster.
Thank you for your time.
First, we moderators are all volunteers. We don't get paid or receive remuneration for our services. We do this because we were at one point approached and offered the position, and feel that the forum is important enough to us to take the time to keep it cleaned up and resolve disputes and the such. No current moderator has any sort of professional or monetary stake in any manufacturer or vendor. If a vendor does well, we don't see any of the profits. All profits made from the SBG Sword Store go to running the main page and the forum. We moderators do not have anything to do with the main page or the store. We don't know who runs them or have any influence. They are completely separate entities.
In the past, we've had a moderator that had a professional relationship with vendors and ran their own store that sold a few different brands. They had strong opinions, and many of these opinions tended to run in favor of brands they sold. That person is no longer a moderator, and has not been for some time. I'd like to mention that the person had been a longtime member who was well respected and who's opinion was valued among most of us at the time, and at the time of their departure was suffering from serious issues. Unfortunately, they left under less than ideal circumstances. It has since been decided that a person with a stake in a vendor should not be in a position of authority. Even if they are morally spotless and 100% free of profit-driven thoughts, there is still a doubt that creeps in when a brands vendor tells you to buy their stuff, not the other.
If a brand gets mentioned by a moderator here, it is their own personal opinion. I often recommend Musashi, Munetoshi, Hanwei, Huawei, Kris Cutlery and the current shadowy overlord of the forum, Ronin Katana. Why? I've either had great personal experiences with the brand, or have seen many, many recommendations and trust the authors of them. If Musashi sells a ton of Shirakawas, or Hanwei a bunch of Raptors or Ronin a slew of Dojo Pro's off of my recommendations I don't get anything, not even a thanks. It's the same with the other moderators.
You will not be reprimanded or shown the door if you provide criticism of a brand the SBG Store sells so long as your post follows the same rules everybody must follow. Remain civil, try to be constructive, don't be antagonistic, use crude language, or make inappropriate or threatening statements towards other members. If you can be civil, nobody loses. Arguments are fine, disagreeing is fine, criticism is fine, all as long as the rules of posting are followed. In my tenure, I have never banned a member who spoke against myself, the site or any of the stores brands. I have banned those that did so while being overly rude or threatening and refused to follow the rules while doing so. I often see these people join other groups and complain that they got stepped on by the man for speaking the truth and nothing more, or claim that they left of their own accord because oppression and cronyism abound. I have also never seen any of my fellow moderators or the site owner do so since I started moderating. On the contrary, they, like myself, don't believe that a brand or vendor, our own included, should be coddled. Everybody makes mistakes, every manufacturer sends out lemons, every vendor messes up occasionally. If you gloss over or do not mention the mistake then the manufacturer and/or vendor cannot fix that issue in future runs. If you do not contact a vendor for satisfaction when you get a bad product then they don't have a chance to prove that their customer service is up to par. So speak up, and when doing so mention to us if you've contacted the vendor or not and what their response was. As buyers it is our responsibility to keep sellers in check just as much as it is theirs to provide quality service and products.
Paul Southern, the owner and Admin of the site, leaves the running of the forum to us. He does not issue us directives beyond the main one, which is to enforce the rules and not turn the place into Cabrini Green. He's never poked his head in and said "We gotta move these ones, push them hard!" He does not admit or eject members. It is entirely up to us to maintain standards and keep the forum running.
As mentioned, the current "bad guy" is Ronin Katana. They are sold in the store, get recommended a lot, and have their own sub-forum and site representative. Why? Because they asked. If Hanwei, Munetoshi, Dynasty Forge or any other wanted a similar set up they would be welcomed. Most big manufacturers tend to stay off of forums, which is a pity. They could get a lot of direct feedback from people who know what they are talking about if they did. The site representative is Daniel, and he is a former moderator. He stepped down because he felt that if he was going to represent a brand then being a moderator would cast suspicion on himself, the brand and the forum.
So, understanding all of this hopefully you have a better understanding of how it's done here. I also hope you now understand the following:
Adrian's Personal Rant:
.............................................................................................................................................................................................
When you accuse the forum of cronyism you are, whether you realize it or not, offending the hell out of me. I personally know that what is being said is not true. If an accusation is made I can, as moderator, check the logs to see if it happened. It hasn't. You are, again, perhaps unintentionally, calling into question the credibility of the individuals who comprise the moderating staff, as we are the ones who run the site. I take my reputation here fairly seriously, as well as the reputations of the others and the forum. I know that should the forum ever become a venue for manufacturers I would step down as moderator, and likely leave the site. We are not a soap box for people to use to get over on. Our purpose is to try and guide new buyers to the best deals based on their wants and needs, to help educate each other and provide a safe, friendly environment for those passionate about our hobby to get together and improve.
.............................................................................................................................................................................................
I hope I have done something constructive here. I know that there are some who, even in the face of empirical proof, will still cling to the ideas of corporate puppets and jack-booted oppression. I'm not talking to you. I also know that we have a few members who may not trust this or have a hard time believing what I say based on treatment shown them in the past. I'm sorry for that, but we're a whole different group now(and most of the old group was very solid) and rules have been put in place to see that things like that don't happen again. Some of you already know most of this and probably feel like you wasted your time reading a wall of text. Sorry.
I'm not locking this thread. Please feel free to chime in with questions, request clarifications, or speak on an incident that has happened that you feel is in contradiction to what I've said. A great way to prove that something improper is happening is to take a screenshot of the posts. Make sure you get the date and time, as well as the name of the poster.
Thank you for your time.