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Post by howler on Sept 27, 2016 20:29:48 GMT
What's a Hudson Bay knife? Not to move away from the original question but a lot depends on where you are (or are going to be) and what you expect to be doing. If you're in the desert, a knife is sufficient because there is no use for anything else. I can see how a short and heavy machete (it might not be called that) or extra heavy survival knife could take the place of a hand axe very easily but not a larger axe that you might want to do some chopping with. It's just a question of efficiency. But if you're going to be in thick brush or what used to be called jungle (it's a rain forest now), a regular machete is much handier and even those come in different sizes and shapes, presumably for a reason. The British used to issue a short and thick machete (the name of which I can't remember now) in the 1950s but it had a rough handle and some would say it was too short. In any event, an axe or hatchet would be poor substitutes for an ordinary machete. I can also see how a kukri would make a good heavy duty knife, which is exactly what it is. They are also available in various sizes and a longer one would come close to substituting for a machete. Of course, all of these things overlap to some degree, which makes it interesting. You would also want to bring along a small file and a sharpening stone, just like if you were going to work with a scythe. That's another fairly specialized cutting tool that I'll bet no one has mentioned here before. Don't quote me on the Hutson Bay specs, but I thought it was a very large knife (used in Canadian trapping regions) comparable to a bowie, but without the clip point. I guess the big point is that there have been a lot of examples of long cutting tools from other countries that have become more popular in recent years that seem functional and versatile in bush craft applications. These exotic designs seemed to coincide with the larger/thicker knife and machete influx on the market, and interest in baton technique (partly popularized by individuals on YouTube).
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Post by bluetrain on Sept 28, 2016 17:35:04 GMT
I don't know how thick a machete can be but the one I have, an ordinary hardware store model, isn't thick at all. It didn't come very sharp, either, and likewise, won't stay sharp for very long when actually used. But for what it's intended for, it's perfect and inexpensive. I won't say it's suitable for woodcraft or bushcraft, though, no more than a sickle. But a few other long knives might be, like a Martindale Golok (which I couldn't remember yesterday) or perhaps even better, a kukri. But they aren't very long. How long is long enough is a debatable point. But they're certainly thick enough.
I'm not sure if my best all-round knife is a Mora Companion or a Bucklite folding knife, the largest one (probably not available now). I really wouldn't want to use either one as is being done in the video, however. Instead, I'd find a way to avoid having to do something like that with either a large folding knife or sheath knife. But I wouldn't hesitate with a Golok or a kukri. Depending on what you think you might be doing, I'd say a small pocket knife pared with a thick knife like either of those would be a good combination. But given what is available, the possibilities are almost limitless. And sometimes you'd want to have a plain old paring knife, too.
Even though combination tools have been around since the cowboy days and probably even earlier, I don't think much of them. The most useful ones are frankly rather specialized and the rest have more functions than you might ever need. If you needed anything in particular, then I think it would be better to actually bring along a regular tool just for that purpose. In my case, I have a small pair of slip joint pliers just for opening the fuel tank on something I take camping. I never take anything that has screws, so I don't need a screwdriver. Don't need a bottle opener or corkscrew, and so on. I do appreciate their designs and their cleverness and in fact, I have two. One is Swiss Army style, the other plier-style. One is in my lunch bag (with the paring knife), the other is in the car.
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Post by howler on Sept 28, 2016 19:52:29 GMT
I don't know how thick a machete can be but the one I have, an ordinary hardware store model, isn't thick at all. It didn't come very sharp, either, and likewise, won't stay sharp for very long when actually used. But for what it's intended for, it's perfect and inexpensive. I won't say it's suitable for woodcraft or bushcraft, though, no more than a sickle. But a few other long knives might be, like a Martindale Golok (which I couldn't remember yesterday) or perhaps even better, a kukri. But they aren't very long. How long is long enough is a debatable point. But they're certainly thick enough. I'm not sure if my best all-round knife is a Mora Companion or a Bucklite folding knife, the largest one (probably not available now). I really wouldn't want to use either one as is being done in the video, however. Instead, I'd find a way to avoid having to do something like that with either a large folding knife or sheath knife. But I wouldn't hesitate with a Golok or a kukri. Depending on what you think you might be doing, I'd say a small pocket knife pared with a thick knife like either of those would be a good combination. But given what is available, the possibilities are almost limitless. And sometimes you'd want to have a plain old paring knife, too. Even though combination tools have been around since the cowboy days and probably even earlier, I don't think much of them. The most useful ones are frankly rather specialized and the rest have more functions than you might ever need. If you needed anything in particular, then I think it would be better to actually bring along a regular tool just for that purpose. In my case, I have a small pair of slip joint pliers just for opening the fuel tank on something I take camping. I never take anything that has screws, so I don't need a screwdriver. Don't need a bottle opener or corkscrew, and so on. I do appreciate their designs and their cleverness and in fact, I have two. One is Swiss Army style, the other plier-style. One is in my lunch bag (with the paring knife), the other is in the car. A Mora type knife, with a full and wide tang and thicker blade (to take abuse of slight baton work in woods) would be good. Swedish Mora excel in coastal, fishing type towns, but still work great wherever. Multi tools (like SAK, lighter plier type, etc...) with small saws, awls, small (extra) blades, tweezers, scissors, can opener, can be useful and don't take up much pack. Really, if your in the woods for any length of time, a SAK, light Mora (stowed in your gear) AND more robust knife (under 6" blade) at your hip would be quit sensible, and with little weight penalty (oh, and maybe a small folding saw). An Ontario cutlass machete has a 12" blade, is slightly thicker than normal, and can be used as an excellent camp knife with its 1095 steel. I should ask you, Blue, if you have looked at the Condor line (Parang, Golock, bush craft parang, pack golock, etc...). Some of these things are in the $30ish range and come with high quality leather sheaths. The only real debate is between a light hatchet vs. the constellation of large knives and thick machete, because, as you get into the heavier gear...heavy hatchet, 3lb. mid range axes, your into something entirely different, and must ask yourself if these are necessary (oh, and...like the small folding saw earlier...a 30" bowsaw).
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Post by bluetrain on Sept 28, 2016 20:50:26 GMT
I've been checking on Martindale Goloks, mainly just because I've been wanting one for a while and I also found a place that has original issue surplus canvas P-44 sheaths to go with them. I could find a use for one, since I really need a valid excuse to buy one. When I mentioned an ordinary hardware store machete, probably a Collins, I was hardly praising them. They work well for certain purposes and are inexpensive, which is always an important consideration.
Another factor relates to what you're doing in the woods. My point of view is as a long-distance hiker, when weight is a serious consideration. Essentially you find ways to do without things rather than taking everything along that you might need. But if your trip is no more than, say, ten or twenty miles one way, that's less important and you can bring along as much stuff as you can carry and can find a use for, at least if you're somewhere you can use an axe and build fires, which is not everywhere.
Happy trails.
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Post by howler on Sept 29, 2016 2:41:48 GMT
I've been checking on Martindale Goloks, mainly just because I've been wanting one for a while and I also found a place that has original issue surplus canvas P-44 sheaths to go with them. I could find a use for one, since I really need a valid excuse to buy one. When I mentioned an ordinary hardware store machete, probably a Collins, I was hardly praising them. They work well for certain purposes and are inexpensive, which is always an important consideration. Another factor relates to what you're doing in the woods. My point of view is as a long-distance hiker, when weight is a serious consideration. Essentially you find ways to do without things rather than taking everything along that you might need. But if your trip is no more than, say, ten or twenty miles one way, that's less important and you can bring along as much stuff as you can carry and can find a use for, at least if you're somewhere you can use an axe and build fires, which is not everywhere. Happy trails. Yikes, 20 miles...I better get in shape. I think how long you are going to stay in a base camp is a big consideration. Also, if your talking multiple people, a boys axe and 30" bow saw (5lbs total for both items) split between the group (the more the better) is nothing in comparison to the mastery you would have of a heavy wooded environment, particularly if you were staying for a long time and it was cold and wet. Single person backpacking in the summer, with no real base camp...that 3lb. boys axe would/could be hard to justify, especially in smaller sized wood environments.
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Post by bluetrain on Sept 29, 2016 11:45:23 GMT
Twenty miles is just about tops for one day's tramp, whether you're out for the day or on your way to Maine on the Appalachian Trail. Trail and weather conditions make a difference, of course.
Older books about camping from the 20s and earlier tended to assume a base-camp situation, chiefly for hunting. But they all talked a lot about knives and axes. Axes are less important these days because of fewer opportunities to use them. You can't freely cut wood just anywhere or build fires, either.
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Ifrit
Member
More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
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Post by Ifrit on Sept 29, 2016 14:00:53 GMT
Another thing to consider is that if your looking to make a quick fire, there is a lot of fallen trees in the woods. Dry wood, usually. Slam those dried out saplings on a live tree, stump or rock and you can break them into smaller pieces. Find some sticks and twigs for kindling, bigger ones for lasting fires. At least where I'm from. I was always able to find kindling when me and friends went go have a bush fire and beers, winter or summer
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