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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Apr 14, 2016 4:36:41 GMT
I was finally able to make my messer video today. I was also pleased to receive a package in the mail with a copy of the "The Messer of Johannes Leckuchner" DVD. Coincidence? I think not!
The messer is very light and balanced close to the guard, as mentioned in the other review thread. Consequentially it does very well for rapid-fire snap cuts and slashes from the wrist. It's definitely a whole different ball game from the choppers I usually prefer, but it's a ton of fun. Great for cutting water bottles. I got creative this time and bought some food coloring to go with the 36 pack of water bottles.
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Post by chrisoro on Apr 14, 2016 11:24:02 GMT
Good and highly entertaining review! Loved the half-swording part! edit: Looks like you were a bit luckier than I was with the accuracy of the decorative lines on the nagel?
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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Apr 14, 2016 12:32:27 GMT
I guess so. I didn't see any obvious flaws on mine. Ah, well. I guess that's sub $200 QC.
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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Apr 14, 2016 12:33:43 GMT
I saw the half-sword/murder stroke Messer demo and couldn't resist :'D
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Post by chrisoro on Apr 14, 2016 12:43:17 GMT
Hehe, I used to think half-swording/murder stroke was absolutely insane (or that they had either very dull blades or highly imaginative illustrators during the late middle ages), until I saw Skallagrim's video on it on youtube.
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Post by randomnobody on Apr 14, 2016 21:31:19 GMT
Awesome video, as always. I'm starting to like this thing, whatever it may be, as I've become quite the fan of shorter single-hand swords, but I'm still leery of Cold Steel products. Mostly, whether they're "good" or "bad," I just don't want to give Cold Steel money if I don't have to. Their 2016 lineup, though, is making me reconsider. More reviews may yet sway me.
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Post by einkidu on Apr 29, 2016 0:13:11 GMT
I really like your reviews,they have an old sbg feel that i really dig. Keep them coming. But I cant wait to see how nuts you'll become when reviewing an higher end blade !
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Post by Beowulf on May 25, 2016 22:09:56 GMT
Initial impressions fifteen minutes after opening box.
Oh yeah, thank you (or curse you) RedMichael and Chrisoro for your reviews of this little beast. I was not aware of it until I ran into your excellent review. Thanks (Curses)
Remember, I wanted a messer. I've got nothing against falchions and I have a couple good ones and really like their intent and war-seax, 'falcon' or downright hewing nature.
This screams Windlass Steelcrafts commissioned work. Good work too.
Small, straight blade without twists, no signs of hammer forging. Nagel is cocked back WAY too far. I knew it would be pretty skewed, but this is enough that I cannot wear gloves while gripping messer- not even my carpenter's synthetic gloves. Mystified at the over complexity of the hilt around the shoulders of the blade. Does it really need to have a raised piece at the cross itself on each side, where an ecusson would begin on some swords? This is a needless design element, it serves no purpose and is not a good decoration IMO. It simply adds a bit of weight. Also, swellings at the blade base in the cross-hilt... Why? There is no need to give the knuckle-bowed, en-nageled hilt a pregnant semi-tsuba. I don't know how else to describe it. I think it is wide tolerances for the cast-in blade slot to sit recessed without sacrificing strength in the cross. But really?
Still puzzled by the half-messer, half-falchion nature of it: knuckle-bow or nagel- pick one. Do not have both. Knuckle-bow is a gorgeous Gothic affair, very handsome. But I'd rather just have a good nagel and shortish quillons. Handle is comfortable, attractive in it's simplicity. Yet again, though, why such a short handle? Is it a falchion or a messer? Argue all you want, but falchions and messers are functionally different weapons, meaning they fight differently. This is an interesting weapon; modify it one way, you have more or less a messer, with weighted pommel and strange sword-tang. Modify it another way and it is a little falchion. What is it right now? A dussack? That is what it seems like with this combination of nagel and bow. That isn't a bad thing though. As a Messer: I'd like to have half a hand's worth of additional handle there to subdue using it as a lever and to strike with. As a Falchion: I'd like to have a stouter, longer blade.
Tang button shows no tang on mine poking through or a ghost outline of such. Not sure from this example if I am dealing with a screw on piece or something welded in some way and ground down into a single piece. I like the pommel. Not much more to add. It's nice. It isn't right for a messer, but I am nit-picking well beyond the $200 USD or so this goes for.
Handling is sort of dead in a good way. Ever handle a weapon that has been over-optimized for balance? This is it. I won't be too critical, because I still need to play with it outside and away from my animals. But no good inertia, no effort required to exert against a lever in a strike. Perhaps not a bad thing if you understand messer fighting.
Instincts: I want two of them, one to cut off the knucklebow and heat-bend the nagel out into something reasonable and another to dismantle, and marry it's hilt to the Hanwei Dark Sentinel's blade or something else similar, using the original messer blade for some other cool project. Another thing: I badly want to take this apart to see just what kind of a tang this has. I am sort of afraid to push it in testing without wearing my hauberk and some neck/face protection. It is that wonky falchion tang-thing it has going on. I don't know what is in there because it is a sword tang.
Why must everything be difficult? The originals were designed very straightforward and kick ass. Still I am happy right now I have it and I am already scheming ways to satisfy curiosity and/or make it better. I am impressed so far, despite my sempriniing. Let me put it this way: the CS grosse messer is ahistoric through and through. It is not a representative of it's name except in a future world, an alternate earth or a knife shop. The CS Messer? I can tell you what bothers me about it because so far it has impressed and confounded me in equal measure. It is still a $200 USD banger, sure. But it is an interesting mix of “Wow!” and “Why did they do that like that?”
I still think “messerfechten!” is a cool expletive. Try it sometime. It makes others fearful for no good reason. :)
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Post by Croccifixio on May 26, 2016 3:19:37 GMT
Nice review wih lots of details! In the interest of studying HEMA, what do you think differentiates falchions and messers functionally? In terms of the blade, the originals did not seem to differ too much. Handling is a bit different given the nagel on the messer and pommel on the falchion (and that the messer has a more or less complete fighting manual with additional tangential sources on its use). But what else would you say makes them wholly different functionally?
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Post by Beowulf on May 26, 2016 5:23:52 GMT
I guess basically the falchion is a specialized sword, following that set of defensive movements and strategies. The messer is often used to outright stop an incoming blow. The kicker though is that often the messer uses the back of it's spine to do so, therefore the falchion can do that same exact motion. We just don't have any manuals saying/showing that, but hey, look at the thing. To me the difference is in the nagel and probably the balance. I'm about to go to bed here... but...
The messer can intercept in a different way than a falchion can because of that nagel. But it's good at protecting a hand in an intercepting bind probably foremost. Seems to me a lot of messer work is about stopping and counter-cutting. It is built a bit better to do such a thing. Stop on one side, cut to the other.
Balance seems different to me when you look at the sword hilt and pommel of a falchion and the often longer handled and "capped" pommel or buttplate of a messer. You've got perhaps the same amount of steel in your hand, but it is in a different place with a messer, in the beefy tang. I would think it is faster rotationally than a falchion, but I have only handled a few messer, though they were good ones. These ones I handled and got to put through their paces seemed to bear this out. The falchions I have used seem a bit like blade heavy arming swords. The messers seem like... hmm... choking up too far on a weapon's handle? A better rotational balance. I cannot explain that.
A falchion is a shearing blade in my mind. Often a no nonsense thing optimized for the cut, almost percussively so. A messer changes it's line of attack well. This is my take on it. One of my best friends swears my line of thinking is BS and that falchion and messer are interchangeable. Okay, sure, but not entirely. The nagel and the different weight distribution counts for something to me. A falchion, in my mid, will tire you out and risk your hand playing at messer- a messer will under perform at countering/defeating maille and helm/helmet/shield.
I would love to hear others take on this. I've read a few. It is always fun to discuss such stuff.
Both flavors are quite tasty. I love it when I hear the sweet sound of the messer and falchion truck playing it's tune as it comes through my neighborhood. I grab my money and race across my lawn to get in line with all the other HEMAphiles. The menu is cool, with all those old fightmasters drawn like cartoons. Don't get the Talhoffer Crunch. It's nasty. I like the messer that looks like Spiderman, and that strawberry falchion they sell. MMMM. Summertime.
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Post by William Swiger on May 26, 2016 16:32:29 GMT
Merged these reviews into one.
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