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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2008 1:00:50 GMT
I just got a Cossack Brigade Persian saber for a very low price. It's my first antique! Mine's more rusty than the one pictured, but for the price I got it, not bad at all!! Let's just say it was less than most Windlasses! The sword is that used by the Cossack Brigade of Iran. By all accounts, Iran's best cavalry were the irregular Turkic groups, but it's still nice to own a piece of history from a brigade that actually saw some combat. I have yet to see it in person (3 weeks til I see it, I'm dying of anticipation!) but just had to share my childish giddiness. Remember when you bought your first antique? Share your story if you want (and any info on this baby is welcome too of course!) Thanks for sharing my giddiness friends!
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Post by alvin on May 11, 2008 1:12:08 GMT
Congrats on the acquisition Shayan. That style sabre is one of my favorites too - just haven't been able to find one that I could afford. Can you relate more on the Cossack Brigade of Iran? Were they mercenaries and what period of time did they serve Iran? Again, congrats. Karma to you for having good luck.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2008 1:21:48 GMT
Thanks! Check your PMs by the way The Cossack Brigade was sort of the whim of the Qajar shah, who was trying to modernize his army. Most contemporaries agree that trying to Westernize the army was a mistake, though, since the irregular Turkmen and Azeri troops were amazing warriors that were handicapped by unfamiliar Western military culture--after all, their mode of combat had worked stupendously since the Seljuk era! But the Shahs felt the Army needed a new image since the political discourse of nation states and armies had become more prevalent, and so they commissioned a "professionalized" army (that wasn't as good as the irregulars ironically). It was modeled after the Russian Cossacks and thus was termed the Iranian Cossack Brigade. The sword is almost identical to many Cossack swords of the same era. Although I think the "Westernization" of the cavalry--a cavalry, ironically, on which the Western light cavalry were in fact based--was a total mistake, I'm still very glad to preserve a sword from the army my ancestors commissioned. Thanks again for the congrats!
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2008 2:14:08 GMT
Congratulations, Shayan! I can't wait to see photos of the real deal!
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Post by hotspur on May 11, 2008 5:46:51 GMT
Way to go Shayan. My first real sword was a rather turista grade Jian that actually had a pretty good blade. It was a dumpster dive find in a big college town on moving day (Boston College) Labor day and Memorial day, as the students came and went were always good pickings. I had stripped of the remains of the hilt, cut a guard out of a brass nameplate, then slotted a rather large boiler bolt for a handle and pommel. Two pins and some paracord later and I was in business. It lived in the trunks of a couple of my cars from the late eighties into the nineties. A friend was shocked I was lettig it get rusty reppeatedly and offered to do it up right with a better hlt effort. I never saw it again. I moved west, he moved north and then passed away a couple of years ago. I've not approached his better half about it and don't even know if the blade is still around "in the family" as it were. A couple of years ago, I decided my reproduction list was pretty full and started buying antiques as I have been able too. I had seen some real wants dissapear whie I was still buying high end knives and more reproductions. Even with the repros, I tended to haunt the secondary market and did very well. Of three A&A swords, only one was new and ordered by me. I had bought a neat old lance head, hafted as a dagger during all this and my next antique purrchase was a yataghan I had watched at a dealer some four years. The past year has seen me juggling some things around and maybe going a bit overboard but grab while I can was the philosophy and they are nice pieces. I was bad today and spent a chunk on more books. The books are neat because you can visually own and learn a great deal for a bit less money. I'm glad you got a deal on it. I'm bickering with someone on a knife board about who might be turning out better fakes, China or India. I think I lost it initially when he was indicating these swords must be fakes because they don't have sharkskin and silver wire. Let alone single ring scabbards that never existed in real time Ah well. Keep your eyes open. there are a lot of swords in the UK priced better than they are over here. Cheers Hotspur; I may be done buying for a year or so but one never knows what might come along
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2008 19:03:16 GMT
Thanks for sharing your stories! It's funny how something simple like a friend's Disney trip or a tourist-grade jian get a lifelong passion kindled. Jonathan, that's a GORGEOUS first antique! Did you restore it or was it already in such impeccable condition? Mr C, that jian sounds like a fun little fighting sword, I hope you can get it back someday. Your first blade, and the first you modified--two milestones in sword ownership. And you're right, ebay is definitely in a "get it while you can" mode! Some things are cheap, others are just going fast... If you search ebay for "persian cossack sword," there's another one going for 160 last i checked--it's in much better condition than mine, judging by the description. That's the one pictured above--the page with mine had blurry pictures. I hope one of you gets it if you're interested, then I'll know another piece of history is in good hands. cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-RUSSIAN-PERSIAN-COSSACK-BRIGADE-SWORD_W0QQitemZ380024803418QQihZ025QQcategoryZ20272QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemhere's a contemporary picture of Russian Cossacks with the same saber: the Persian Cossack Brigade (the shakos aren't just cossack though, most Turkic peoples from Russia to northern Iran sported those, and it's still the national hat of Azeris) the maker's mark on another Persian Cossack sword (identical to the mark on mine, as far as I can tell from the pics) It's the part with the two sabers(?) crossed in a circle--the other marks are serial numbers. ("6041" in that photo) Are there any good articles on maintenance and restoration around? I found one on SFI so far, but I want to make sure of everything before I consider doing anything at all (once I even get the thing! haha) I think mine will be a bit ugly when it gets here, but I know "restoration" can devalue it. Though honestly I didn't buy it with any intention to resell, so perhaps touching it up may be worth it. Moot point until the durned thing actually gets here I suppose!
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2008 20:37:47 GMT
Shayan, I have not done any restoration to the sword. The blade would have originally been engraved and had blue and gilt decoration. In the years between the original owner parting with it and me buying it, the blade was polished many times. There are faint traces of engraving and no traces of blue and gilt. The same goes for the brass hilt. It would have been gilded as well, but now there are only traces. As a 14 year old who had seen my father polish brass candlesticks, I thought I should do the same with the hilt. There was not any original patina to damage, so I don't think I did any further harm, but I stopped polishing it about 10 years ago and the brass has a nice old-looking patina. The blade is slightly pitted, but has been polished so many times that even the pitting is pretty bright.
Glen, Show us your yataghan one more time. ;D
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2008 20:44:41 GMT
Yes! I have a fever and the only cure is more cowbell yataghan!
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Post by hotspur on May 12, 2008 0:02:03 GMT
Well, ok. This had come from Collectors Firearms at a time when their online inventory was a lot more flush but already depleting quickly. I first noticed this listing sometime around the fall of 2002 and springtime 2006 saw me finally calling them up. It was actually because something else I had watched sold out from under me. Walrus ivory and a gold alloy. The divider strip is sheet on a horn backing. The steel on many of these is a crucible steel, a variety not accurately called Wootz but the same methodology of production. The touchmark common on many of these is a religious plea of courage "ya ali" Here is a blade section as I was carefully working on the polish. Someone had loved it as a machete and it was pretty scuffed up. The rep on the phone even refered to it as "that machete thing, or whatever it is." Here is a closer shot of the mark and surround that shows the nest of steel structure indicative of crucible steels. Another segment of a blade I had studied even two years before finding this one (1999-2000) and a nice shot of unforged pattern evident in Wootz and similar crucible steels. I still don't have good pictures of the polish as it is now. I had removed the scuffing but stopped before removing original grinding marks. I am going through the same process with that eagle sabre and still have more to do on both. The horn backing of the divider was in trouble as well but I have stuck that back together with superglue. the following shots show some of the divider detail more closely and the few hairline cracks in the ivory. Bigger than life, I'll just link them here. usera.imagecave.com/Hotspur/Yataghan/yataghan002.jpgusera.imagecave.com/Hotspur/Yataghan/yataghan005.jpgThere is currently a cousin to this one over on the SFI classifieds with horn grips and others do pop up selling for less because of condition problems. If mine had retained its scabbard and had never been abused as a tool, it would have sold for three or four times what I had paid if listed at Oriental arms or 101 Antiques. I have a thing for bone and ivory. It has been a passion for stag that made me spend on a Vince Evans bowie and a Kevin Cashen bowie. Other knife buys over the past decade have also cut deeply into the antique and sword fund in general. I just yesterday dumped another chunk into books and could easily have doubled or tripled that outlay. Truth be told, there are another baker's dozen of dealer listings I am stalking but have really exceeded what is rational for blades in one year unless I wanted to make a business of it. Some do exactly that. Cheers Hotspur; maybe it really is time to let some stuff go
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Post by randomnobody on May 12, 2008 2:26:19 GMT
Beatiful, Hotspur. I must have a yataghan one of these days... I remember my first antique; a French bayonet bought from Jonathan Hopkins not long ago on this very forum. I still love the thing; it rests at the center of the top of my headboard. My second was bought from slavia631, an old wakizashi, the details of which are still fuzzy at best but I've gotten in line with what seems a pretty good polisher and hope to see this restored fully soon. Waiting list is over a year long, though. I'm in the market for another, but haven't decided if I want another wak or bayonet, or perhaps a European saber or two...maybe something British, to appease my grandfather... Congrats, Shayan, and welcome aboard. Antiques or bust now! Hmm... Maybe I'll make my next a Cossack saber...
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Post by tareece on May 12, 2008 4:42:26 GMT
Well, the 2 swords I got at the auction. The M1852 Naval Officers Sword and the Knights Templar. People here say it could be pre 19th century, so they're over 100 years old, or close. Hope that qualifies for "antique". I've always loved swords, and my son (16) has taken a considerable liking to the Templar, mainly due to the mystic of the name and the etchings and detail. The motto, "Faithful unto Death...." means quite a bit to us, as we are devout Christians. He'll probably get it for his 17th b-day next week. The Naval Sword is quite nice and I need to get the wire fixed. Thats the only thing to do to it and it'll go on display, or used to finance another purchase. I love history and these often forgotten pieces are tangible evidence of the lengths that people would go in order to not only make war, but prepare for peace. Good job Shayan...May I ask why the 3 week wait? Is it being shipped from Iran or the middle east? If so, man that must be a story as well! Congrats and happy waiting...LOL
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2008 7:33:06 GMT
Heh! mashaallah bro, mashaallah! Just stunning...
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2008 7:34:26 GMT
Nice buy shayan. Now all you need is one of those Cossack moustaches!
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2008 1:12:39 GMT
Haha! My father had one of those. In fact, I think those were cool in Iran before Russia knew what mustaches were. Can't say I look good with one! It needs a beard for balance. My great great great grandfather had a lustrous black beard that reached his waist, maybe I'll try for that. Mine would be a bit reddish though--my maternal ancestry is mostly Irish! Turkmen eyes, aquiline northeast Persian nose, curly dark hair, and what!?! A red beard!?! That's genetics, go figure
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