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Post by MessengerofDarkness on Nov 26, 2015 21:57:04 GMT
That tsuka core is indeed pretty gross, messenger. Not acceptable on a sword even a third that price. I've seen some really nice Custom SBG swords, but you have every right to decry yours based on that example. With the tsuka completely off, I can actually see right through the tsuka out the other side. XD Let this be a lesson; if you see the light at the end of the tunnel, do NOT walk towards it. ;) Now I just need to decide whether or not I should ask for a refund or not, as I DID unwrap the ito and remove the stickiness, though that was to expose the multiple pieces of samegawa used on one side (at $450, I would expect them to use one continuous strip too). The light at the end of the tunnel:  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2015 3:50:29 GMT
Couple thoughts
Delays suck, and you have a right to be ticked off if things run months over without a heads up. That's just not cool.
The nakago, I understand being disappointed in how that ana was drilled out. That’s pretty sloppy work. That’s going to gouge out the inside of the tsuka when you remove / reinsert the blade and should have been caught. That could account for why it was hard to disassemble. I am not going to say it wasn’t glued, it may have or maybe not, but with that metal sticking out removing the blade is going to be a task, and you'll end up with a pile of sawdust and splinters just because of what it is doing to the inside of that channel.
I didn't quite catch whether or not you tried to work things out with the SBG shop. Assuming you didn't, that's not necessarily a problem. Some people will tell you that should have worked with them before posting a video or doing a complete disassembly, and they are partially right. If you give a vendor a chance to smooth things over, good ones will do what they can to try to help you out and salvage a relationship and they'd probably refund your money if that's what it took, and it sounds like a big part of your frustrations was the cost in relation to the value you feel you got, since you mention it over and over again. However, you don't owe it to them and you absolutely do have the right to do exactly what (it seems like) you did.
This is something vendors need to consider - when things go out the door to customers they don't owe you a chance to fix it after the fact. Now since you've posted this, I wouldn't expect them to try, but they might have before you closed that door. Not a moral judgment just a matter of fact observation that at this point the bridge seems burned on both sides. Practically speaking it is pretty much always better to give the shop a chance to fix it. If that left me, I'd try to make you happy right up until the point where you went public. After that I would not budge a micrometer from whatever policy I had in place. You have every right to be upset of course and I'm not saying you shouldn't be.
I guess the take away is I'm sorry you aren't a happy dude with the sword you bought. Better luck next time?
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Post by MessengerofDarkness on Nov 27, 2015 3:54:17 GMT
Couple thoughts Delays suck, and you have a right to be ticked off if things run months over without a heads up. That's just not cool. The nakago, I understand being disappointed in how that ana was drilled out. That’s pretty sloppy work. That’s going to gouge out the inside of the tsuka when you remove / reinsert the blade and should have been caught. That could account for why it was hard to disassemble. I am not going to say it wasn’t glued, it may have or maybe not, but with that metal sticking out removing the blade is going to be a task, and you'll end up with a pile of sawdust and splinters just because of what it is doing to the inside of that channel. I didn't quite catch whether or not you tried to work things out with the SBG shop. Assuming you didn't, that's not necessarily a problem. Some people will tell you that should have worked with them before posting a video or doing a complete disassembly, and they are partially right. If you give a vendor a chance to smooth things over, good ones will do what they can to try to help you out and salvage a relationship and they'd probably refund your money if that's what it took, and it sounds like a big part of your frustrations was the cost in relation to the value you feel you got, since you mention it over and over again. However, you don't owe it to them and you absolutely do have the right to do exactly what (it seems like) you did. This is something vendors need to consider - when things go out the door to customers they don't owe you a chance to fix it after the fact. Now since you've posted this, I wouldn't expect them to try, but they might have before you closed that door. Not a moral judgment just a matter of fact observation that at this point the bridge seems burned on both sides. Practically speaking it is pretty much always better to give the shop a chance to fix it. If that left me, I'd try to make you happy right up until the point where you went public. After that I would not budge a micrometer from whatever policy I had in place. You have every right to be upset of course and I'm not saying you shouldn't be. I guess the take away is I'm sorry you aren't a happy dude with the sword you bought. Better luck next time? Oh, the video isn't mine, I found it online and was asking others for their opinions. XD But, the pictures listed in this thread ARE from mine, and I'm agreeing (now) with the video that it isn't at all a good deal. (I DIDN'T destroy my blade, I still have the whole thing, just disassembled.) I emailed Paul earlier today asking if we an work out a refund, so we'll see. AGAIN, the dude in the video is NOT me, but somebody else's experience. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2015 4:07:02 GMT
haha I'm not the only guy to make that mistake then! XD I think the points stand.
Hopefully you can get a happy resolution
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Post by MessengerofDarkness on Nov 27, 2015 4:14:34 GMT
haha I'm not the only guy to make that mistake then! XD I think the points stand. Hopefully you can get a happy resolution Me too - I wouldn't ask for a refund after destroying the blade like he did, I'm not that kinda guy. All I did was disassemble it, as it seemed kinda cheap when I got it - I removed the tsuka and unwrapped the ito to get a complete look at the tsuka, that's all. |
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Post by nddave on Nov 27, 2015 5:29:55 GMT
haha I'm not the only guy to make that mistake then! XD I think the points stand. Hopefully you can get a happy resolution Me too - I wouldn't ask for a refund after destroying the blade like he did, I'm not that kinda guy. All I did was disassemble it, as it seemed kinda cheap when I got it - I removed the tsuka and unwrapped the ito to get a complete look at the tsuka, that's all. Maybe if it fits you could ask Paul if he'd be willing to ship you one of those Ronin Katana Tsuka to replace the bad tsuka the sword came with? Would seem reasonable as its available on the SBG Store and more reasonable and definitely less costly than a custom refund. Honestly though since you just removed the tsuka and unwrapped the ito I don't see why that would be too much for a return. Paul himself is who started the whole, "remove the tsuka and check for cracks and defects" on SBG so I wouldn't think he'd deny you for checking the tsuka when you noticed possible faults that could prove hazardous. Either way, never hurts to ask. |
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Post by MessengerofDarkness on Nov 27, 2015 5:47:23 GMT
Me too - I wouldn't ask for a refund after destroying the blade like he did, I'm not that kinda guy. All I did was disassemble it, as it seemed kinda cheap when I got it - I removed the tsuka and unwrapped the ito to get a complete look at the tsuka, that's all. Maybe if it fits you could ask Paul if he'd be willing to ship you one of those Ronin Katana Tsuka to replace the bad tsuka the sword came with? Would seem reasonable as its available on the SBG Store and more reasonable and definitely less costly than a custom refund. Honestly though since you just removed the tsuka and unwrapped the ito I don't see why that would be too much for a return. Paul himself is who started the whole, "remove the tsuka and check for cracks and defects" on SBG so I wouldn't think he'd deny you for checking the tsuka when you noticed possible faults that could prove hazardous. Either way, never hurts to ask. The problem with that would also be that the ronin, tsuka, in all likelihood, would not be a good fit for the SBG nakago, and would require either some careful shimming, or some serious sanding. And I didn't much care for my only Ronin Dojo pro either, it came with loose ito (which is synthetic silk, NOT real silk, as paul states it is), and it came with a cracked core, despite me revoving it carefully. Plus, there were problems with this blade too, ie, very rough kissaki, not sharp geometry, secondary bevel, etc. The whole thing feels like I could have gotten it from an ebay vender for 1/2 to 2/3 of the price I paid for it (plus, the two mekugi-anna do not face in opposing angles either, they are both angled in the same direction too.) I'd personally hope for a full refund and return, then I'd just buy another, higher-end blade (maybe a Ronin Elite in shirasaya, less to screw up in terms of koshirae). But we'll see. |
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admin
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Post by admin on Nov 27, 2015 5:57:32 GMT
Wow, that tsuka is indeed shameful - I am launching a full investigation with the forge to find out what happened and if there was an unauthorized change of materials - we had already advised them using scrap rayskin is unacceptable so especially after so many delays and problems this year with this line, this is deeply upsetting to me..
With regards to the original video, the customer in question did not contact us, WE contacted him and he received two Ronin Katana swords in lieu of a refund.
He mentions this in the comments section:
- unfortunately it is not easy to see so I guess people think we don't stand behind our products.. Oh well..
I have also refunded messenger of darkness in full and he can keep the blade for remounting.
Just some additonal background info - we DO care deeply about this line and our customers who purchase them and despite some peoples claims that they are overpriced, to give you an idea of our costs - customers in the USA and Canada get them shipped at no cost. However the costs of shipping alone are considerable..
Each sword is first shipped from the forge from China to Canada (1st shipping cost), then my team there go over each piece and compare it to the spec sheets of the original order to make sure the customizations are correct, give each sword a few test swings for looseness, inspect the blade, inspect the fit of the saya, tightness of components, etc. Then each sword is repackaged and shipped to the customer (2nd shipping cost).
Each stage the blades go through costs us money in packing materials, payment to the team inspecting and shipping, payment to staff handling enquiries and formatting spreadsheets to the forge, and then actual shipping cost from Canada to the customer (in Messengers case, this was $38.10). All in all, shipping and inspecting alone costs us over $100 total per sword..
Furthermore, we do our best to update customers of delays, via personal email replies, mass mailings, blog posts and newsletter updates. A huge amount if extra time and money goes into each sword that is simply not seen from the outside looking in. The amount of stress I personally experience with each shipment is actually almost intolerable as I really worry each time something goes wrong or runs late - and this year has been a real nightmare..
If we find a problem we advise the customers before shipping - in some cases we refund, in some cases we have the sword remade from scratch. Sometimes customers get a free second sword. Sometimes issues arise after shipping, most common is the wood in the saya or tsuka expanding or contracting during seasonal changes - we had some recently that were effected this way going from China, to Canada to Nevada - very frustrating, and while it may take time, we never knowingly leave a customer in the lurch - as with the original video post, we actually contacted HIM to get it sorted as we had no idea there was a problem until we saw the video..
In short, if you think these are overpriced then please think again. We spend a huge amount of time, money and care on each order (some customers change their order details 3 or 4 times and many ask dozens of questions which we spent a huge amount of time answering in detail) - we really do care about the customers and the quality of this line - we paused orders since July this year because we wanted to address a backlog that occured when our primary contact went down for 2 months after a delay caused by a change of supplier and then our contact underwent heart surgery and we are only now getting caught up but still will not take new orders until March 2016 as a courtesy to existing customers..
I assure you, they are not overpriced - yes, sometimes there is a lemon like this but we take care of it. We make sure that your order matches your customizations and the ONLY thing that has kept this line going for 8 years is the fact that once completed, we often get emails from delighted customers from all walks of life. Many are serious martial artists who appreciate a good blade designed with their own theme.
The two swords featured in this thread are shameful indeed, and we will be taking up the issues with the forge and - as mentioned - taking care of the customers effected.
Apologies to messenger for the hassles. I am deeply embarassed and ashamed by this terrible sword - but it is in now way representative of what this line usually achieves..
- Paul
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Post by nddave on Nov 27, 2015 6:02:44 GMT
Maybe if it fits you could ask Paul if he'd be willing to ship you one of those Ronin Katana Tsuka to replace the bad tsuka the sword came with? Would seem reasonable as its available on the SBG Store and more reasonable and definitely less costly than a custom refund. Honestly though since you just removed the tsuka and unwrapped the ito I don't see why that would be too much for a return. Paul himself is who started the whole, "remove the tsuka and check for cracks and defects" on SBG so I wouldn't think he'd deny you for checking the tsuka when you noticed possible faults that could prove hazardous. Either way, never hurts to ask. The problem with that would also be that the ronin, tsuka, in all likelihood, would not be a good fit for the SBG nakago, and would require either some careful shimming, or some serious sanding. And I didn't much care for my only Ronin Dojo pro either, it came with loose ito (which is synthetic silk, NOT real silk, as paul states it is), and it came with a cracked core, despite me revoving it carefully. Plus, there were problems with this blade too, ie, very rough kissaki, not sharp geometry, secondary bevel, etc. The whole thing feels like I could have gotten it from an ebay vender for 1/2 to 2/3 of the price I paid for it (plus, the two mekugi-anna do not face in opposing angles either, they are both angled in the same direction too.) I'd personally hope for a full refund and return, then I'd just buy another, higher-end blade (maybe a Ronin Elite in shirasaya, less to screw up in terms of koshirae). But we'll see. Edited due to Paul's response first. Kudos Paul, your the man! |
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Post by MessengerofDarkness on Nov 27, 2015 6:13:41 GMT
Wow, that tsuka is indeed shameful - I am launching a full investigation with the forge to find out what happened and if there was an unauthorized change of materials - we had already advised them using scrap rayskin is unacceptable so especially after so many delays and problems this year with this line, this is deeply upsetting to me..
With regards to the original video, the customer in question did not contact us, we contacted him and he received two Ronin Katana swords in lieu of a refund. He mentions this in the comments section: "sbg did reimburse me for the faulty make of the custom katana. they have made it right. but this video shall serve as a warning to the quality of mass produced China tanas." - unfortunately it is not easy to see so I guess people think we don't stand behind our products.. Oh well..
I have also refunded messenger of darkness in full and he can keep the blade for remounting.
Just some additonal background info - we DO care deeply about this line and our customers who purchase them and despite some peoples claims that they are overpriced, to give you an idea of our costs - these are shipped free to the USA and Canada, but the costs of shipping alone or considerable.. Each sword is first shipped from the forge from China to Canada (1st shipping cost), then my team there go over each piece and compare it to the spec sheets of the original order, give each sword a few test swings for looseness, inspect the blade, inspect the fit of the saya, tightness of components, etc. Then each sword is repackaged and shipped to the customer. Each stage costs money, packing materials, payment to the team inspecting and shipping and actual shipping cost from Canada to the customer (in Messengers case, this was $38.10). All in all, this alone costs us over $100 total per sword..
Furthermore, we do our best to update customers of delays, via personal email replies and mass mailings. A huge amount if extra time and money goes into each sword that is not seen from the outside. The amount of stress I personally experience with each shipment is actually almost intolerable as I really worry each time something goes wrong or runs late..
If we find a problem we advise the customers before shipping - in some cases we refund, in some cases we have the sword remade from scratch. Sometimes customers get a free second sword. Sometimes issues arise after shipping, most common is the wood in the saya or tsuka expanding or contracting during seasonal changes - we had some recently that were effected this way going from China, to Canada to Nevada - very frustrating, and while it may take time, we never knowingly leave a customer in the lurch - as with the original video post, we actually contacted HIM to get it sorted as we had no idea there was a problem until we saw the video..
In short, if you think these are overpriced then please think again. We spend a huge amount of time, money and care on each order (some customers change their order details 3 or 4 times and many ask dozens of questions which we spent a huge amount of time answering in detail) - we really do care about the customers and the quality of this line - we paused orders since July this year because we wanted to address a backlog that occured when our primary contact went down for 2 months after a delay caused by a change of supplier and then our contact underwent heart surgery and we are only now getting caught up but still will not take new orders until March 2016 as a courtesy to existing customers..
I assure you, they are not overpriced - yes, sometimes there is a lemon like this but we take care of it. We make sure that your order matches your customizations and the ONLY thing that has kept this line going for 8 years is the fact that once completed, we often get emails from delighted customers from all walks of life. Many are serious martial artists who appreciate a good blade designed with their own theme.
The two swords featured in this thread are shameful indeed, and we will be taking up the issues with the forge and - as mentioned - taking care of the customers effected.
Apologies to messenger for the hassles. I am deeply embarassed and ashamed by this terrible sword - but it is in now way representative of what this line usually achieves..
- Paul
Thank you very much Paul, although if this was indeed the problem then there's no need for a long-winded apology. Things happen, I understand (I wish they didn't, but I'm happy to see that you were able to resolve it.) More than anything, I hope that your issues with the forge can be worked out successfully. Whether or not this was a one-off fluke or just a result of outsourcing materials i don't know, but thank you for the quick response. Also, I'm sorry if I implied that all of the swords were cheap and overpriced, that was NOT my intention. For sure, I definitely let at least some of my annoyance get to me, which likely made me seem a little more sour that I normally would have been. I apologize for that. While I do wish that it hadn't happened (I'm usually the one guy that consistently gets a dud, for some reason, not just in swords), I'm very much relieved to hear that this katana isn't necessarily representative of what most of your products are like. I've been a devout fan of this site and its content for many years now, and I'm quite relieved to see that you were able to take care of this. To anyone else that had bought one of your blades, I really hope that theirs has turned out well. That's what drew me to the offering in the first place, a reasonably-priced, well made katana with some degree of customization to suit its owner. Thanks again Paul, and good luck with the forge. :) -Alec |
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Post by Croccifixio on Nov 27, 2015 6:24:57 GMT
I apologize to Paul if my statement on overprice hurts him, and I acknowledge his position as a businessman. Costs do indeed crop up at every stage.
My sentiment, however poorly conveyed, was that overprice is not necessarily a result of an unreasonable premium on top of the actual costs, but also a result of what else is available on the market at that price point. The intangible part here is the customization, which should definitely add to the price. Unfortunately, the SBG Sword Store is not alone in this particular market. I won't go too deeply in that, but suffice to say that while SBG's customer service is world-class, I continue to wish their forge/supplier could stay at par.
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Post by nddave on Nov 27, 2015 7:13:23 GMT
I apologize to Paul if my statement on overprice hurts him, and I acknowledge his position as a businessman. Costs do indeed crop up at every stage. My sentiment, however poorly conveyed, was that overprice is not necessarily a result of an unreasonable premium on top of the actual costs, but also a result of what else is available on the market at that price point. The intangible part here is the customization, which should definitely add to the price. Unfortunately, the SBG Sword Store is not alone in this particular market. I won't go too deeply in that, but suffice to say that while SBG's customer service is world-class, I continue to wish their forge/supplier could stay at par. I don't really want to speak for Paul on this but in my point of view, much like with other markets who you buy from with the addition of solid guarantees and quality customer service can add to price or to the buyers value of price. Sure there are other manufactures or vendors that also offer the same customization services, but do they offer the customer service and guarantees that vendors like Paul do? Not many if at all. Also regarding the extra hand that goes into the process of fulfilling the custom order. How many times have reviewers of Ebay and other custom katana offering vendors made the alluded claim that pre-inspection or overview was done, either personally or by a part of the manufacturing process only to receive a untouched straight from the forge shipped sword with apparent issues? Issues that were supposedly pre-checked either pre shipment or during the manufacturing process? More than I'd like to say unfortunately. At least with the SBG Custom your getting that pre-inspection. Now if that pre-inspection is sub par due shoddy workers then that is on SBG and something that is needed of attention. Paul has stated that he will look in and correct the issue poor productivity from the inspection team as well as the forge itself. The fact that he is behind the product enough to offer full refund with out return really says something about Paul and the SBG Custom line. If this is some "sham and gloss job" by Paul then SBG Customs would be out of business on refunds alone. Even though these are customs they are still production swords and as with everything done in mass production there will be faults or issues eventually in the line, as well as issues that get looked over. It's has been said a lot, "you get what you pay for" in the sword market or in others as well. With the SBG Custom line I think it's worth the extra cash as opposed to the Ebay competition because even if your paying a few hundred less for the Ebay custom, your not getting that money back guarantee or the customer service that comes with it. I'd rather take a risk with someone I trust rather than someone I don't. |
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admin
Site Admin
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Post by admin on Nov 27, 2015 8:35:54 GMT
It isn't just the price, ebay sellers are notoriously untrustworthy. Many claim to have their own forges, claim san mai when the blades are just folded, or claim folded when the blades are cosmetically etched. Many that are sold as differentially hardened are actually monotempered and the hamon is achieved with water blasting the steel to a template! Which is why they can be "differentially hardened" but bent to 90 degrees and spring back to true..! They also lie about who they are - most are actually females supplementing the family income so they don't need much profit as their cost of living is low and their husbands have full time jobs at the forge. In China, more females speak English than males and they tend to be better at web design too.. Their prices are not that amazing when comparing apples with apples. You can see a recent review by Messenger of Darkness on the even-sword, ST-Nihonto or whoever they are here: sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/46318/seller-sword-custom-katana-reviewHe paid $600 for this sword. It was supposed to have gyaku-menuki, hira-niku, a certificate and a sword stand, brown buffalo horn and 10" nagako. When it came in, it had standard menuki placement, no niku, no certificate, no sword stand, black buffalo horn and an 8" nagako with 3" inches missing in the tsuka.. And the seller KNEW it would be reviewed on SBG - so they actually work harder to make it correct when they know they will get free advertising.. It had poor fitting saya that needed to be filed, loose habaki (which was supposed to be silver, he got silver plated bronze), loose kashira that was glued but did not hold, crooked fuchi, slides out of saya.. Seppa were loose too.. If the SBG custom Katana was still running, you could get the same type of sword for $564 ($60 for leather hisigami ito, $75 for rayskin saya) free shipping, lifetime guarantee, full inspection and it would be as ordered or we would tell you before shipping. We don't offer as many options, but we work hard to ensure you actually get what you selected and it is CHEAPER plus the purchase supports the site, forum and industry - while buying from the ebay seller has the opposite result.. If our sword arrived with so many customizations wrong we would advise the customer it should be remade. With the ebay sellers, they usually just apologize and maybe send you some ito or sageo in the mail and hope that takes care of it. Sending back to China is not an option.. |
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admin
Site Admin
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Post by admin on Nov 27, 2015 9:14:25 GMT
Here is another recent review which suggests even when they know the review will end up on SBG they mess it all up.. To avoid a return they offered a $25 refund which became $75 IF the reviewer agreed to post 5 star positive feedback on ebay.. Here are some of his comments:
sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/46317/nihonto-shinogi-zukuri-kamasu-kissaki
Again, this is when they KNOW they are being watched, and getting free advertising. When less knowledgeable people buy, who knows what happens..
This: "30 days money back, buyer pays return shipping" means nothing... For one, it will cost a small fortune to send to China, but secondly - Chinese customs will confiscate it..!
Again, many things wrong with the sword - requested pictures not sent, wrong koshirae set, wrong ito covering mekugi, terrible wraping, hamon questionable (close to edge, fatal flaw), poor saya fit, laquer comes off.. Not sure of the price but over $300 from what I can tell.. And then, offers a $25 discount and blackmails to keep good ebay feedback..
Hmm...
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Daniel Dacombe
Member
Company Representative - Ronin Katana
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Post by Daniel Dacombe on Nov 27, 2015 14:07:51 GMT
Hey everyone, I know I am a bit of a rare sight on SBG these days (a fact which may be changing soon) but I thought I'd weigh in here.... Partly because I own two SBG customs of my own (from batches 1 and 29), and partly because for the last 6 months, I have been the one half of the Canadian SBG custom katana inspection team. So I've been able to handle literally dozens of the SBG custom katana that have been produced in recent batches.
As a rule, we do not remove every tsuka on the katana that we inspect. It would be greatly time consuming and honestly isn't necessary with most of them. As Paul mentioned earlier we checked them for fit and finish, correct components, blade quality and overall construction which includes the tightness of the tsuka. If we detect any looseness in the tsuka the Katana is not cleared for shipment to the customer and we have a few options of what to do with it.
What we have done with several is remove the loose handle and try to repair it. The options of how to repair it without Resources & expertise can be limited, but some customers ( myself included) do not have a problem with having their handle epoxied on to the blade tang. Now some customers do, and if they don't we just won't do that- nobody gets a katana where the handle has been surprised epoxied to the tang. Paul handles the customer service so I'm sure he deals with those people in a way that is mutually satisfying to both parties.
Anyways, what I'm trying to say is that I had the opportunity to remove several tsuka from the sbg custom katanas over the last 5 batches. I have also removed tsuka from Katana of several other brands including Ronan Katana. The tsuka cores on SPG customs have been comparable to the other cores that I have had the opportunity to work with. The picture shared of the "shredded" core are both concerning and highly anomalous. Speaking personally I have never seen a core that looked like that before.
To the owner of the katana - I hope you and Paul are able to come to some kind of resolution that satisfies you both. I have been involved with the SPG custom katana project from the beginning, if I recall correctly it grew out of a few email conversations between Paul and myself that he was able to run with. He was able to start up something that has satisfied many people over the years - myself included. I have known Paul and counted him as a friend for just about a decade now, and have absolutely no doubts about his integrity. And to be very blunt, if people knewh all the stuff that goes on behind the scenes to get these Katana from the Forge to the customers with so many people satisfied with them and relatively few defects or unsatisfied customers.... well. They would probably have the same opinion of Paul that I do.
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Post by MessengerofDarkness on Nov 27, 2015 14:39:07 GMT
Hey everyone, I know I am a bit of a rare sight on SBG these days (a fact which may be changing soon) but I thought I'd weigh in here.... Partly because I own two SBG customs of my own (from batches 1 and 29), and partly because for the last 6 months, I have been the one half of the Canadian SBG custom katana inspection team. So I've been able to handle literally dozens of the SBG custom katana that have been produced in recent batches. As a rule, we do not remove every tsuka on the katana that we inspect. It would be greatly time consuming and honestly isn't necessary with most of them. As Paul mentioned earlier we checked them for fit and finish, correct components, blade quality and overall construction which includes the tightness of the tsuka. If we detect any looseness in the tsuka the Katana is not cleared for shipment to the customer and we have a few options of what to do with it. What we have done with several is remove the loose handle and try to repair it. The options of how to repair it without Resources & expertise can be limited, but some customers ( myself included) do not have a problem with having their handle epoxied on to the blade tang. Now some customers do, and if they don't we just won't do that- nobody gets a katana where the handle has been surprised epoxied to the tang. Paul handles the customer service so I'm sure he deals with those people in a way that is mutually satisfying to both parties. Anyways, what I'm trying to say is that I had the opportunity to remove several tsuka from the sbg custom katanas over the last 5 batches. I have also removed tsuka from Katana of several other brands including Ronan Katana. The tsuka cores on SPG customs have been comparable to the other cores that I have had the opportunity to work with. The picture shared of the "shredded" core are both concerning and highly anomalous. Speaking personally I have never seen a core that looked like that before. To the owner of the katana - I hope you and Paul are able to come to some kind of resolution that satisfies you both. I have been involved with the SPG custom katana project from the beginning, if I recall correctly it grew out of a few email conversations between Paul and myself that he was able to run with. He was able to start up something that has satisfied many people over the years - myself included. I have known Paul and counted him as a friend for just about a decade now, and have absolutely no doubts about his integrity. And to be very blunt, if people knewh all the stuff that goes on behind the scenes to get these Katana from the Forge to the customers with so many people satisfied with them and relatively few defects or unsatisfied customers.... well. They would probably have the same opinion of Paul that I do. Daniel, As far as working things out goes, Paul has already refunded me my payment in lieu of the tsuka problems, and has graciously offered to let me keep the blade to as to not have this be a complete waste of my time. As far as I'm concerned, that's more than good enough to warrantthat status of 'resolved; in my mind. And while I understand that you can't check EVERY little aspect of the custom katana upon inspection, I will admit that this one was not easy to redily identify as a lemon. Upon first removed, the tsuka core was not cracked from the fuchi side, and the fit to the nakago was actually good. The only thing that jumped out at me as a red flag was one of the mekugi was severely misplaced, and had a large gauge in one side. Concerned with that, I gave the tsuka another once-over and found the kashira to be looser that I would refer, and I quickly saw why. One of the ends of the ito, instead of being tucked under the folds in the end knot, was instead turned back and stuffed into/under the kashira, which was letting it become loose. Quickly unwrapping the ito, I not only found that the samegawa had been pieced together on one side, but that the tsuka was see-through lengthwise, as the picture shows the open wound underneath where the kashira was covering it. In short, the damage wasn't readily apparent to it, and I can understand how it might have passed a cursory inspection - at first everything seemed tight, there were no readily apparent cracks, and the pieced-together same was cleverly hidden underneath the ito fold. |
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Daniel Dacombe
Member
Company Representative - Ronin Katana
Posts: 4,162
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Post by Daniel Dacombe on Nov 27, 2015 14:55:04 GMT
Daniel, As far as working things out goes, Paul has already refunded me my payment in lieu of the tsuka problems, and has graciously offered to let me keep the blade to as to not have this be a complete waste of my time. As far as I'm concerned, that's more than good enough to warrantthat status of 'resolved; in my mind. And while I understand that you can't check EVERY little aspect of the custom katana upon inspection, I will admit that this one was not easy to redily identify as a lemon. Upon first removed, the tsuka core was not cracked from the fuchi side, and the fit to the nakago was actually good. The only thing that jumped out at me as a red flag was one of the mekugi was severely misplaced, and had a large gauge in one side. Concerned with that, I gave the tsuka another once-over and found the kashira to be looser that I would refer, and I quickly saw why. One of the ends of the ito, instead of being tucked under the folds in the end knot, was instead turned back and stuffed into/under the kashira, which was letting it become loose. Quickly unwrapping the ito, I not only found that the samegawa had been pieced together on one side, but that the tsuka was see-through lengthwise, as the picture shows the open wound underneath where the kashira was covering it. In short, the damage wasn't readily apparent to it, and I can understand how it might have passed a cursory inspection - at first everything seemed tight, there were no readily apparent cracks, and the pieced-together same was cleverly hidden underneath the ito fold. Thanks for the follow up, Messenger. We will keep your feedback in mind when we examine the next batch, which should be here in our hands in a few weeks or so (depending on when the forge sends it, which is unfortunately another aspect of the process that we have little control over). I'll take a closer look at the kashira on the ones that come in. Honestly I'm always surprised by the difference in finish between the "lemons" and the nice quality ones I handle - it seems like if there is a problem it's never just one thing wrong with a sword. It's either nothing is wrong, or everything! Maybe you got the tsuka that was worked on by someone on his first week at the forge... Eh, I'm just speculating at this point. In any case, I'm glad you found the problem resolved to your liking. Thanks again for sharing it. |
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Post by MessengerofDarkness on Nov 27, 2015 14:59:38 GMT
Daniel, As far as working things out goes, Paul has already refunded me my payment in lieu of the tsuka problems, and has graciously offered to let me keep the blade to as to not have this be a complete waste of my time. As far as I'm concerned, that's more than good enough to warrantthat status of 'resolved; in my mind. And while I understand that you can't check EVERY little aspect of the custom katana upon inspection, I will admit that this one was not easy to redily identify as a lemon. Upon first removed, the tsuka core was not cracked from the fuchi side, and the fit to the nakago was actually good. The only thing that jumped out at me as a red flag was one of the mekugi was severely misplaced, and had a large gauge in one side. Concerned with that, I gave the tsuka another once-over and found the kashira to be looser that I would refer, and I quickly saw why. One of the ends of the ito, instead of being tucked under the folds in the end knot, was instead turned back and stuffed into/under the kashira, which was letting it become loose. Quickly unwrapping the ito, I not only found that the samegawa had been pieced together on one side, but that the tsuka was see-through lengthwise, as the picture shows the open wound underneath where the kashira was covering it. In short, the damage wasn't readily apparent to it, and I can understand how it might have passed a cursory inspection - at first everything seemed tight, there were no readily apparent cracks, and the pieced-together same was cleverly hidden underneath the ito fold. Thanks for the follow up, Messenger. We will keep your feedback in mind when we examine the next batch, which should be here in our hands in a few weeks or so (depending on when the forge sends it, which is unfortunately another aspect of the process that we have little control over). I'll take a closer look at the kashira on the ones that come in. Honestly I'm always surprised by the difference in finish between the "lemons" and the nice quality ones I handle - it seems like if there is a problem it's never just one thing wrong with a sword. It's either nothing is wrong, or everything! Maybe you got the tsuka that was worked on by someone on his first week at the forge... Eh, I'm just speculating at this point. In any case, I'm glad you found the problem resolved to your liking. Thanks again for sharing it. Sure thing Daniel, whatever helps you guys out. :) And good luck wit the next batches! |
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Post by zabazagobo on Nov 27, 2015 18:31:49 GMT
Here is another recent review which suggests even when they know the review will end up on SBG they mess it all up.. To avoid a return they offered a $25 refund which became $75 IF the reviewer agreed to post 5 star positive feedback on ebay.. Here are some of his comments:
sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/46317/nihonto-shinogi-zukuri-kamasu-kissaki
Again, this is when they KNOW they are being watched, and getting free advertising. When less knowledgeable people buy, who knows what happens..
This: "30 days money back, buyer pays return shipping" means nothing... For one, it will cost a small fortune to send to China, but secondly - Chinese customs will confiscate it..!
Again, many things wrong with the sword - requested pictures not sent, wrong koshirae set, wrong ito covering mekugi, terrible wraping, hamon questionable (close to edge, fatal flaw), poor saya fit, laquer comes off.. Not sure of the price but over $300 from what I can tell.. And then, offers a $25 discount and blackmails to keep good ebay feedback..
Hmm...
Agreed 100000% Paul. This is exactly why I stay away from Ebay vendors (other than Huawei; if you worked out a deal with Jacky for a SBG custom project, I would jump for joy like a child at Christmas) because of crap like this. When I finally have some time to post reviews during the upcoming holiday season I look forward to sharing my similar experiences with the craptacular service and products I received from Yao over at Hanbon Swords. It does really bother me how Ebay vendors pull stuff like this all the time.  |
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Post by jrock on Nov 27, 2015 18:55:32 GMT
This is why i never buy swords off ebay. Sure there may be potential lemons with every manufacturer but that can be acceptable when backed by a good sound return policy. Whats not acceptable, at least to me, is when manufacturers like ryanswords and st-nihonto etc. try to put out false advertising that comsumers will believe in and not back their product when that false advertising is tested and realized by said consumer. Its pathetic.
If i had the cash i would spend it on a sbg custom, hanwei, ronin, or even a citadel however im satisfied with musashi at this point. Do i think musashi is the "best"? Hell no lol. But for $100 to $200? Yes. But thats my opinion. Out of the 3 i have i havent been disappointed once but im sure if i buy more i will get a lemon because thats the way it is but i know i can easily have it returned.
I think what Paul and sgb are doing is a great thing, very great in fact. I hope they will continue.
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