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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Aug 28, 2015 7:41:52 GMT
30 degree you aren't trying for a real sharp edge, A 25 degree is what I call a working edge. 17 will give you a very sharp kitchen knife slicer.
Svante I know the grind types and edge degrees, don't need any help from you. You just love to strip things up.
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Post by vinland on Aug 28, 2015 7:50:16 GMT
I find that many European swords are too dull, with some exceptions.
If I'm getting a cheaper sword I'll just order it blunt and save a bit of money because I'll have to sharpen it properly anyway. Even my darksword longsword, despite ordering it to be sharpened with the upgraded scabbard, came fairly dull. Batting away even jugs of water and being more or less useless against soaked newspaper.
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Aug 28, 2015 8:08:38 GMT
Funny how it is what some people consider dull other people can make the cuts with them. Sharpest doesn't make up for a lack of skill.
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Post by vinland on Aug 28, 2015 8:23:28 GMT
Funny how it is what some people consider dull other people can make the cuts with them. Sharpest doesn't make up for a lack of skill. True, I won't claim that I'm great with cutting and I've seen what some people can do with a sword made blunt. Someone with more skill could do it much more consistently than I can against targets I'd never get through. however I could see light reflecting off the edge. Not like it was ordered dull, almost like they needed to do one more pass on the sander. After countless cuts to rolled newspapers with the darksword without many going all the way through, while being able to do it much more frequently with a hanwei tinker even though I just got it. I know I can get much better but I'm finding that I'm much more successful with the tinker early medieval single hand sword. |
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Aug 28, 2015 8:36:05 GMT
Here a way of practicing edge alinement get a machete go out and clear brush. Not trying to be a smart ass on this one.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Aug 28, 2015 10:33:25 GMT
From Cheness we have the following : "The sharpened blades are polished to the degree necessary for tameshigiri and will perform very well in that application. It is NOT sharpened as a razor and you cannot slice paper or shave your hair with it out of the box. (To do so would require a rather minor touch-up on the edge)." Today's Cheness blades require more than a "minor touch-up", they are closer to a butter knife, If a supplier states "very sharp blade" I would expect something that will readily cut a sheet of paper. Traditionally Katana were very sharp with a convex edge of 17-19 degrees, that met precisely in the centre.  |
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Post by svante on Aug 28, 2015 12:39:14 GMT
30 degree you aren't trying for a real sharp edge, A 25 degree is what I call a working edge. 17 will give you a very sharp kitchen knife slicer. Svante I know the grind types and edge degrees, don't need any help from you. You just love to strip things up. Sorry if you felt targeted by what i said. I absolutely expect you as a maker to know your grind types and edge degree's. Lancelot that's a fantastic edge! Certainly explains the smooth cutting you do in your videos. Is Cardboard the best choice after 8000 grit? Isn't cardboard (other than for removing the wire edge) a bigger grit size in micron's than 8000? Try stropping on newspaper at 8000 grit instead of cardboard and tell me what you find, its smaller in grit size than cardboard and it will remove the already very small burr easily. |
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Aug 28, 2015 14:14:46 GMT
Sorry if you felt targeted by what i said. I absolutely expect you as a maker to know your grind types and edge degree's. Lancelot that's a fantastic edge! Certainly explains the smooth cutting you do in your videos. Is Cardboard the best choice after 8000 grit? Isn't cardboard (other than for removing the wire edge) a bigger grit size in micron's than 8000? Try stropping on newspaper at 8000 grit instead of cardboard and tell me what you find, its smaller in grit size than cardboard and it will remove the already very small burr easily. Hehheh ok, will give it a try too. Cardboard so far is not bad. It made the 8000 grit finished surface even shinier. :D But I'll try newspapers out too. And I dun find your post annoying, dun worry. :D |
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Post by Derzis on Aug 28, 2015 15:22:18 GMT
Funny how it is what some people consider dull other people can make the cuts with them. Sharpest doesn't make up for a lack of skill. That reminds me one of the versions of the legend regarding Masamune and Murasama. To cut story short, both made the best katana they could and stuck the blades into a river. Masamune sword wasn't cutting the leaves the stream was caring and the Murasama blade was cutting all. But when used, nobody could see a difference. Forget the moral lesson, but for me a sword is sharp when is doing what she is meant to do with it. Sooner or later you will need to sharpen it anyway. |
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Post by svante on Aug 28, 2015 19:36:43 GMT
Funny how it is what some people consider dull other people can make the cuts with them. Sharpest doesn't make up for a lack of skill. That reminds me one of the versions of the legend regarding Masamune and Murasama. To cut story short, both made the best katana they could and stuck the blades into a river. Masamune sword wasn't cutting the leaves the stream was caring and the Murasama blade was cutting all. But when used, nobody could see a difference. Forget the moral lesson, but for me a sword is sharp when is doing what she is meant to do with it. Sooner or later you will need to sharpen it anyway. I love these stories, where can i read more of these, do you know? |
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Aug 28, 2015 19:53:12 GMT
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Post by MOK on Aug 28, 2015 20:29:20 GMT
That reminds me one of the versions of the legend regarding Masamune and Murasama. To cut story short, both made the best katana they could and stuck the blades into a river. Masamune sword wasn't cutting the leaves the stream was caring and the Murasama blade was cutting all. But when used, nobody could see a difference. Forget the moral lesson, but for me a sword is sharp when is doing what she is meant to do with it. Sooner or later you will need to sharpen it anyway. There are dozens of versions of that story. In most of them Muramasa's sword eagerly slices everything the stream carries its way - fish, leaves, the very wind blowing over the river - while Masamune's blade doesn't seems to have no effect on anything - leaves bump against it and float on, intact; fish come and nibble at it, unharmed. While Masamune is sheathing his sword, smiling serenely at Muramasa's scoffing at his sword's poor performance, a wandering monk who watched the contest comes up and compliments the exquisite blade that will not cut what need not be cut. There are also versions in which Masamune's blade repels everything, or heals all the things cut by Muramasa's blade, and so on, all with the same basic implication. (The story is pure fiction, of course; the two smiths lived centuries apart.) Personally, it always reminds me of what I think is still the most epic moment in One Piece...  |
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pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
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Post by pgandy on Aug 28, 2015 23:47:17 GMT
I love those stories too. There’s a story that is supposedly true regarding Miyamoto Musashi, possibly the world’s greatest swordsman in one of his most famous, if not his most famous, duel. And I dare say that his edge was less than razor sharp in this case. I have forgotten his opponent but there are several videos out there regarding the fight and the best documentation was that in his biography also on video. In that case he used an oar that he made. The original has been lost to history but in his later years made a reproduction that is on display someplace. This brings to light the adage that it isn’t what you have but how you use it that counts.
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Post by Croccifixio on Aug 29, 2015 1:49:50 GMT
Sasaki Kojiro
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Post by MOK on Aug 29, 2015 2:00:44 GMT
I love those stories too. There’s a story that is supposedly true regarding Miyamoto Musashi, possibly the world’s greatest swordsman in one of his most famous, if not his most famous, duel. And I dare say that his edge was less than razor sharp in this case. I have forgotten his opponent but there are several videos out there regarding the fight and the best documentation was that in his biography also on video. In that case he used an oar that he made. The original has been lost to history but in his later years made a reproduction that is on display someplace. This brings to light the adage that it isn’t what you have but how you use it that counts. Sasaki Kojiro. It's probably the most famous incident in either of their lives. One version of the story has it that Sasaki was known to use a particularly long sword, so while Musashi (tardy as usual) was being rowed to the island where their duel was to take place he carved a spare oar into an even longer bokken. As soon as the boat touched ground Musashi sprang ashore, shouted his challenge and they both charged and struck at each other. The tip of Sasaki's sword just cut off Musashi's headband, but Musashi's glorified club struck Sasaki squarely atop the head and killed him.  |
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Post by Derzis on Aug 29, 2015 2:05:47 GMT
Musashi was saying in his book that it doesn't matter if is steel or wood sword, treat it the same. If my memory is still good, he used that bokuto made from oar after the fight, not a sword. He used the oar because he knew that he had no chance against +4' blade with his sword - it was a common sense from strategic point to look for something longer. The oar was 2" longer than opponent's blade.
MOK, nice vid, I did not know it. That katana who's cutting a rock has also a reflection in an old story :)
pgandy, there are a lot of stories like that. Jussi pointed one source. Maybe some will laugh, but some of those stories are used to make practitioners to understand different concepts. Mushin (no mind) was explained one time using a variant of "Tengu and the woodcutter" story. |
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Scott
Member
Posts: 1,680
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Post by Scott on Aug 29, 2015 7:19:42 GMT
Sharp enough to shave the hairs off a fly's balls How do you hold the fly still? |
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Aug 29, 2015 7:22:16 GMT
With a pair of chop sticks, the first karate kid style.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Aug 30, 2015 3:11:03 GMT
With a pair of chop sticks, the first karate kid style. Circumcise the fly mid-flight ! Vis. The Emperor of Japan advertises for a new bodyguard. Three swordsmen apply: one is Japanese, one is Chinese, and one is Jewish. To test them, the Emperor lets a fly loose in the room and tells the swordsmen to kill it. The Chinese swordsman sweeps down his blade and chops the fly in two. The Japanese swordsman is given the same test. He swings his sword twice and manages to cut the fly into quarters before it hits the ground. The Jewish swordsman is then given a the test. He chases it around the room, swings his sword a few times, then sits down with the fly buzzing around his head. "Why have you stopped?" asks the Emperor. "The fly is still alive." "Yes," replies the Jewish swordsman, "but now it's circumcised." |
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Post by Sammy1kenobi on Sept 4, 2015 2:12:09 GMT
Sharp enough to cut cleanly, but not so fine that it will chip if you hit something hard. I tried cutting with a Darksword that I paid to have factory sharpened. All I did was launch various objects into space. When you see the video of the guy beating on an anvil with a Darksword, just remember that's about all they're good for...might as well be a shiny club. My Castle Keep sword cuts through nearly anything effortlessly.
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