|
Post by Afoo on May 3, 2015 1:40:05 GMT
Hello For those of you who know me, you will know that I am not a huge fan of katanas. I think that they all look too plain and too similar to each others, and some of the media hype surrounding them is rather silly However, for all of this, I do not have any firsthand experience with handling a katana. This bothers me, since I think its unfair that I have a negative view of a weapon without having had a chance to actually experience it myself. Part of me is also slightly curious as to how it would be like to own one, but not curious enough to spend serious money on one That said, I found a few katanas on KoA for around $50, which might be tempting, if only to satisfy my curiosity. Since I know absolutely nothing about katanas, I will have to turn once again to SBG - how are these katanas? Are they broadly representative of katanas as a whole, or are they cheap, lumpen pieces of disappointment on a stick? ~ On a related note, I am curious as to what draws people to katanas? Is it their appearance? Is it their history? Is it because of their exotic far-eastern origins? Explain to me this strange new world. Note: I do not mean to disparage katanas - rather, I am just genuinely interested and curious as to why people are drawn to them.
|
|
Mikeeman
Member
Small Business Operator
Posts: 2,904
|
Post by Mikeeman on May 3, 2015 2:23:03 GMT
If you wanna try a good, cheap katana, pick up a Musashi Shirakawa or a Jubei Lion Dog/Water dragon. Both are pretty good swords for right at $100. Neither will break the bank and both are a good place to get your hands dirty in the katana world. I ordered mine from SnA.
|
|
|
Post by aussie-rabbit on May 3, 2015 2:28:26 GMT
If you wanna try a good, cheap katana, pick up a Musashi Shirakawa or a Jubei Lion Dog/Water dragon. Both are pretty good swords for right at $100. Neither will break the bank and both are a good place to get your hands dirty in the katana world. I ordered mine from SnA. Agreed $50 is unlikely to get you something usable, you would be more likely be disappointed, the above two would get you a representative blade for not much cash, or watch the for sale section
|
|
|
Post by chrisperoni on May 3, 2015 2:29:24 GMT
Seems most people are drawn to katana by the hollywood glamourzation, in much the same way many of us found our first love of swords by way of whatever movies were popular when we first took notice. The last few decades have been pretty katana-centric in the movie biz. But of course there are many other reasons - I am just pointing out one of the main ones.
If you want to keep the price at $50 including any shipping costs, and want to try your hand at a random ebay katana, then I can find this old post of mine that lists how to break down the advanced search options on ebay to a good narrow search pattern. Or the KOA stuff you linked to is fine - at that price point all the kats you can buy are pretty much the same level quality wise. The Shirakawa line from Musashi is said to be a great value at the $100 price point, as Mikeesan has mentioned.
edit/add: $50 is in the range for common problems like troubles with the handle maybe being cracked, that sort of thing; I for sure would highly recommend you epoxy the tang to the handle and lacquer the wrap. I have a $50 kat and it works very well for cutting - it is fully functional. As were the first 3 real katana I bought many years ago and all were around the same price. You take a chance but as long as you don't expect too much and understand you are getting in at the bottom of the cost/value/quality spectrum you can still get a decent cutter.
|
|
Mikeeman
Member
Small Business Operator
Posts: 2,904
|
Post by Mikeeman on May 3, 2015 2:34:13 GMT
If you wanna stay even cheaper, check out the review I did of the Musashi Paulownia Mon katana. It was only $32 when I got it, but any of their sub $50 swords are of the same quality.
|
|
|
Post by Afoo on May 3, 2015 3:02:01 GMT
Thanks - I am thinking of the $50 range for now, since I would be mainly getting it for academic purposes. I am genuinely amazed you can get a decent sword for under $100 though. Pretty impressive.
I really like studying the evolution of western swords - from cross-hilted swords all the way to the elaborate hilts and finally to the hand lances and poking sticks of the 20th century. The engineering of the swords is also impressive, but the way it changes to meet new challenges is by far the most intriguing thing for me. Is there a similar element for katanas? To my eyes, the katana just looks the same. However, the counter argument is that, to an untrained eye, all western swords look more or less the same as well. What are some of the visual cues which you can use to differentiate katanas, and how do they relate to its function?
Sorry - many questions here, but at least I am willing to learn :P
|
|
pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
|
Post by pgandy on May 3, 2015 3:59:44 GMT
For a sword in that price range check out True Swords, they are a reputable company. This will get you started, but they have other offerings. www.trueswords.com/Musha-Swords
|
|
|
Post by Adrian Jordan on May 3, 2015 6:31:35 GMT
My story is the exact mirror opposite of your. Loved katana, disliked Euros(still can't tell you the difference between most Euro swords). William sent me a couple Euro swords in that big spree giveaway he did a while ago and I now fully, 100% admit is was being stupid. I still prefer Japanese weapons, but honestly if I had $300 and was going to spend it on a sword I'd probably get a single hand Euro.
I got my brother a Musashi that I paid less than $40 for, and later got it back and gave it to my nephew. He beat the hell out of it, ruthlessly, and while it sustained damage none of it is fatal or unrepairable. I think if you get a cheap-o katana and don't abuse it then you won't be off bad at all. Don't take it as a good representation of what a katana can be, though. The fittings and workmanship are below par, but it should be usable for handling and light cutting.
|
|
|
Post by hoya on May 3, 2015 15:44:08 GMT
www.budk.com/product/Dueling-Dragon-Crimson-Samurai-Katana-Sword-With-Scabbard/178972.utsI know, I know, I know. It's BudK -- your source for the world's finest Laser Ninja Dragon Kombat Blade Tactical Katana Zombie Annihilator Sword. They make unusable cheap crap that is perfectly designed to white trash up your trailer home. I bought it from another site without realizing it was a BudK sword. I bought it because it claimed to be carbon steel and it was less than $30. I figured if I was wrong, I didn't really lose anything. It's a 1045 blade, and it is sharp enough to cut paper. It has a wire-brushed hamon, but you're not gonna get a real hamon on a 30 dollar sword. The fittings are cheap, but it was assembled well. It's a solidly built sword and nothing moves. The wrapping around the handle is a tiny bit loose, but it isn't enough to affect your grip. After swinging it around for half an hour, the diamond pattern in the wrapping where you have your hands will be a little bit off, but it's easy enough to move them back into place. It fits in the scabbard snugly and doesn't rattle around. As far as the blade goes, it is well balanced, cuts 2 liter diet coke bottles like crazy, and slices through tall weeds in the backyard like nothing. I don't have tatami mats or anything like that, but for light cutting it is great. The only downside is that it doesn't match my Three Wolf Moon shirt. It also has dragons on it instead of wolves. If BudK could have etched wolves on the blade it would be perfect. Oh well.
|
|
|
Post by johnwalter on May 3, 2015 15:47:12 GMT
Trueswords.com is a better bet.
|
|
pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
|
Post by pgandy on May 3, 2015 16:40:49 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Robert in California on May 3, 2015 16:52:31 GMT
stores.ebay.com/wangkatana2011?_trksid=p2047675.l2563Above is decent for $150 category sword (basic decent beaters)...remember $50 is shipping (included in the price so they are really $100 swords or there abouts.) RinC (got a couple...decent swords....add about $25 for full rayskin tsuka wraps)
|
|
|
Post by Gunnar Wolfgard on May 3, 2015 17:11:36 GMT
I never liked Katanas, couldn't understand why the tsuka was so dang long. Why would you need a grip that you can fit three hands on when you only have two, just didn't make any sense. Looking at the mall store junk didn't help change my feelings either. I hate to say it but after watching The Last Samurai I decided to get one just to check them out. It was only a $250 one but the first thing I noticed after taking it out of the saya and just swinging it through the air once was wow this thing was made to slice things. There was no awkward feeling at the end of the swing like, okay now how am I going to stop this thing now that I got it moving. There were no large guard or pommel to get in the way. The sword was made to strike fast then walk away. And on top of that I learned some new Japanese words. Now don't get me wrong, Viking swords are still my favorite but the Katana comes in a close second.
|
|
|
Post by johnj on May 3, 2015 17:34:16 GMT
I think that if your real goal in spending $50 on a katana is to give the sword type a fair chance at showing you they're not all plain and not all the same, you're pretty much throwing away some money that might better be spent on gas and tolls and might leave you with enough left over to pay for lunch. That $50 katana is going to be plain. It might be a functional sword that can do swordy things, but it won't have a chance to change your mind. If what you really want is to reinforce the notions you already have about these swords you should buy that $50 katana.
If you want to give them a real chance you could do better by finding a collector in your area. If you ask the right person you'll get the opportunity to see and maybe even handle a few beautiful items that are quite different from each other. You may or may not like them, but you'll be giving them an honest chance. You won't get to take one home, but you'll know whether or not you actually want to take one home.
|
|
|
Post by Robert in California on May 3, 2015 17:54:02 GMT
Shipping on about every katana I have gotten direct from China has been about $50.
And if one buys cheap cr*p, one will likely be dissatisfied.
RinC
|
|
|
Post by hoya on May 3, 2015 18:13:51 GMT
Trueswords.com is a better bet. I got mine from TrueSwords, it's the same as the emerald one, only with a red saya.
|
|
|
Post by Afoo on May 3, 2015 20:08:55 GMT
I think that if your real goal in spending $50 on a katana is to give the sword type a fair chance at showing you they're not all plain and not all the same, you're pretty much throwing away some money that might better be spent on gas and tolls and might leave you with enough left over to pay for lunch. That $50 katana is going to be plain. It might be a functional sword that can do swordy things, but it won't have a chance to change your mind. If what you really want is to reinforce the notions you already have about these swords you should buy that $50 katana. If you want to give them a real chance you could do better by finding a collector in your area. If you ask the right person you'll get the opportunity to see and maybe even handle a few beautiful items that are quite different from each other. You may or may not like them, but you'll be giving them an honest chance. You won't get to take one home, but you'll know whether or not you actually want to take one home. Perhaps. On the flip side, there are many sabres at the bottom of the price range which I could recommend to new members. They are not as good as the higher end stuff, but they give a sense of what the class of weapons is all about - a representative example if you will, a sense of what lies in wait for those who want to delve further. *if* I do get a cheap $50 katana, I would approach it from the same viewpoint - I know its a cheap example, but it can still give some insight. I am also amazed that you can get decent swords for so little money!
|
|
|
Post by Timo Nieminen on May 3, 2015 21:17:58 GMT
The good $50 katana: (a) 1045 steel, probably heat-treated on the soft side. So, will lack the edge retention of a "real" katana. This won't affect handling. (b) Often a slightly thinner and lighter blade than the typical modern katana. This will affect the handling in a good way. (c) Wire-brushed or no hamon. Won't affect the handling. IMO, a wire-brushed hamon is ugly. (d) Poor kissaki (point) geometry. Don't expect a geometric yokote (transition from rest of blade to tip). Won't affect the handling. (e) Might not be sharpened very well. Won't affect the handling. (f) Zinc-aluminium alloy tsuba and other fittings. Might make the sword a little lighter, with some small effect on the handling. (g) Fake rayskin. Won't affect the handling. (h) Non-standard blade geometry. Might make the sword lighter, might affect the handling. The KoA one you linked is like this.
Most of these won't affect handling. Many will affect durability and cutting. Look at, e.g., the weights, widths, and thicknesses of Hanwei's katanas, or even antique or modern nihonto. Choose a cheap katana that isn't too different, and it will be a reasonable example for dry handling and light cutting.
Some of them are quite OK, as cheap examples. Many of the deficiencies listed above are found on much more expensive swords too. It's a pity that the European Medieval and modern (e.g., 19th century cavalry swords) in that kind of price range aren't as good as the really cheap katanas.
|
|
|
Post by Cottontail Customs on May 3, 2015 21:50:33 GMT
I thought I'd just point out that while you try out this sword keep in mind that the experience you have will be based on handling and inspecting a $50 katana. Like if someone had never seen(in person) or driven a car before and then their first experience with one was an 87 Yugo... well you get the point I think. In many cases, even the high end production katana don't come very close to the real thing so a $50 kat might feel like exactly what it is.
Hopefully you will like it and maybe see some potential, in which case your new katana collection will begin
-Josh
|
|
|
Post by ineffableone on May 3, 2015 21:51:16 GMT
Something I often suggest to newbies looking at katana but have no sword experience, is that there is actually a lot of different katana geometry. That buying some of the low cost, $50-$100, katana in different geometries can help a newbie gain experience with these differences and figure out what they might like to invest more money into. Instead of spending $300 on 1 sword right away, take some time and buy a $50-$100 katana every other month to gain experience with your favorite different types.
Katana seem to be the only sword style right now that actually have fairly functional low cost options. Euros tend to be a lot costlier as do any other swords. So While the $50 katana is not an amazing sword, you can get a $50 one that is functional. For many this is a great way to get their feet wet and find what they like and some experience with live blades. I wish the Euro and other swords would come down a bit to closer pricing as some budget katana, so we could have more budget options in the sword market to gain experience with the vast different geometries.
|
|