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Post by Rifleman Lizard on Apr 16, 2015 17:35:52 GMT
Find the correct spine by using each brand's arrow chart, which indicate the models and spine measurements suitable to your requirements. Easton have a decent one using a numbered T system, and they more or less carry everything you need. www.eastonarchery.com/downloads/selection-charts
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Post by Gunnar Wolfgard on Apr 16, 2015 18:30:08 GMT
I got a compound back when they were just getting popular, used it a couple times but now it sits in my closet. Much rather use these.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Apr 16, 2015 19:06:26 GMT
Looking for some arrows to order, and trying to learn each arrow company's sizing differences (because they are not uniformed for some (censored) reason) had been the most frustrating ordeal thus far. It's like they are just throwing random sizes, alloys, grains per inch, and deflection ratings at you! I am nowhere near a dedicated archery shop, so it seems I have to pick a brand and pray that they have my specific ratings. But they never do. What do you guys suggest when hunting for arrows online? Two options: 1. Stick to one brand, and one arrow. If fussy about exact length, cut them yourself. Otherwise, should be good enough to check whether the seller specifies the length of the arrow (including point and nock), or the length of the shaft (not including point/nock). Pick a major brand you can buy anywhere. 2. Be less fussy. As long as the arrow is appropriately spined (just use the manufacturer's guide), not too short, and not ridiculously too long, shouldn't be a big problem. You'll have variation between different batches of arrows, but consistency within each batch. If you're into competitive target archery, this isn't a good solution; 1 above is much better. For traditional archery, traditionally-made arrows will vary from arrow to arrow. You asked about differences between traditional archery and mechanical archery. I'd divide archery into traditional, modern target archery, and modern bow-hunting. (Can shoot target, including competitively, and hunt, with traditional gear, but the gear in those cases is (mostly) the same. The high-tech gear for those two things is quite different, so one can separate them. Note that there is plenty of shooting of non-traditional non-compound recurves in modern target archery.) Anyway, a big difference between traditional archery and modern target archery is consistency. Not for nothing do they say that target archery is "the art of repetition". Traditional archers must accept more variation from arrow-to-arrow, with some styles, it's much harder to anchor as exactly, and you don't have centre-shot bows, stabilisers, sights, release aids, etc. (not all target archers can use those gadgets, either - depends on the specific rules).
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Post by bigpete on Apr 16, 2015 21:27:49 GMT
Have you got your compound bow and do you know your draw length and draw weight? Is it going to be used for hunting? I assume your going to be using a release aid as your buying a whisker biscuit to put on it. If you can let us know all these things we can probably push you in the right direction regarding arrows. As a man who's hunted with bows over 20 years with primitive gear right up to high tech compounds,I reckon I've a bit of an idea how they are different, from a hunting perspective. I'll do a pro and con list. Compounds ( let's say for arguments sake it's full blown height tech with sights release aid stabiliser and bow quiver ) Pros: easier to be accurate with More power for same draw weight,length,and arrow weight Flatter trajectory Can be held at full draw for a lot longer Often can be micro tuned for perfect arrow flight a little easier Coins: Physical weight More to go wrong Slower to load and reload Often very finicky about tuning,especially newer ones Newer ones NEED to be shot with release aids,I know of no compound brought out in the last 5 years that is meant be shot with fingers Can be very expensive to get into More powerful models can be prone having problems with limbs and cams
Traditional ( longbow or recurve with bow quiver and arrows of any material ) Pros: Light to carry Faster to get a shot off Faster to load/reload Usually quite accepting of small variations in arrows and points Can be easier to get through the bush ( can be harder too :-) ) Capable of shooting arrows made of various materials Way more satisfying when your successful :-) Cons: Not as powerful as an identical weight and set up compound More difficult to shoot with the same level of accuracy Harder to hold back for an extended period of time Can be a little harder to get through the bush with extra bow length
As for arrows,I would not shoot woods through modern compounds at all,but you can get arrows that are perfectly weight and spine matches in ANY material,as long a you pay for it :-) Hope that helps :-)
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Arkhane
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Post by Arkhane on Apr 17, 2015 1:54:05 GMT
I shoot a 30in. draw length, 70 lbs. I ordered a whisker biscuit, but it turns out it won't be here till late May.
I'll be using it for both hunting and target. I also read something about a 5 grain per poundage rule of thumb, meaning you multiply the draw weight by 5 and it comes out to the minimum arrow grain that can tolerate that poundage.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 13:38:01 GMT
I shoot a 30in. draw length, 70 lbs. I ordered a whisker biscuit, but it turns out it won't be here till late May. I'll be using it for both hunting and target. I also read something about a 5 grain per poundage rule of thumb, meaning you multiply the draw weight by 5 and it comes out to the minimum arrow grain that can tolerate that poundage. 5 grains per lb is target archery ultra lightweight territory, nice and fast with a flat trajectory but no real penetration power, its the minimum arrow weight you can shoot before your bow self destructs just like during a dry fire, this arrow weight has the LEAST kinetic energy - not what you're looking for hunting. Kinetic Energy = 1/2 mass x velocity squared. As you increase arrow weight your kinetic energy increases, up to a point, the sweet spot, then it decreases for increasing mass as your speed reduces. You can fine tune this with a chronograph which measures your arrow speed and an accurate pair of digital scales to weigh your arrows.
An arrow weight of 10-12 grain per pound is a more realistic hunting weight arrow. Dare I ask what a beginner is doing puling 70lbs on a compound? Wind back the draw weight to something under 60lb till you have your technique and form good that you can hold nice tight groups at decent range, then wind the draw weight up and see if you can maintain the accuracy. I'm just an average archer and I've consistently shot 1.5" groups at 50m (54y) using a 60lb old fashion 1998 vintage Hoyt compound with just fibre-optic hunting pin sights and no peep at the peak of my training with 465g hunting weight arrows (7.75 grain per lb). Optimum weight for maximum kinetic energy of 60 ft.lb in my case would be about 555grain (9.25grain per lb). I can pull a lot more draw weight but it's neither comfortable nor as accurate when spending a few hours at the range.
When I first learned as a beginner at the archery range we used really low draw weight bows till our form was right, them moved onto the big stuff. There's no pressure to shoot bows with high draw weights, if anything, they'll stuff up your progress faster than anything.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 13:50:45 GMT
Have you got your compound bow and do you know your draw length and draw weight? Is it going to be used for hunting? I assume your going to be using a release aid as your buying a whisker biscuit to put on it. If you can let us know all these things we can probably push you in the right direction regarding arrows. As a man who's hunted with bows over 20 years with primitive gear right up to high tech compounds,I reckon I've a bit of an idea how they are different, from a hunting perspective. I'll do a pro and con list. Compounds ( let's say for arguments sake it's full blown height tech with sights release aid stabiliser and bow quiver ) Pros: easier to be accurate with More power for same draw weight,length,and arrow weight Flatter trajectory Can be held at full draw for a lot longer Often can be micro tuned for perfect arrow flight a little easier Coins: Physical weight More to go wrong Slower to load and reload Often very finicky about tuning,especially newer ones Newer ones NEED to be shot with release aids,I know of no compound brought out in the last 5 years that is meant be shot with fingers Can be very expensive to get into More powerful models can be prone having problems with limbs and cams Traditional ( longbow or recurve with bow quiver and arrows of any material ) Pros: Light to carry Faster to get a shot off Faster to load/reload Usually quite accepting of small variations in arrows and points Can be easier to get through the bush ( can be harder too :-) ) Capable of shooting arrows made of various materials Way more satisfying when your successful :-) Cons: Not as powerful as an identical weight and set up compound More difficult to shoot with the same level of accuracy Harder to hold back for an extended period of time Can be a little harder to get through the bush with extra bow length As for arrows,I would not shoot woods through modern compounds at all,but you can get arrows that are perfectly weight and spine matches in ANY material,as long a you pay for it :-) Hope that helps :-) I'm an old school compound archer, was shocked when you mentioned "Newer ones NEED to be shot with release aids, I know of no compound brought out in the last 5 years that is meant be shot with fingers". That sucks. Forgot that the compound archery world has become a world of parallel arm bows gadgeted to death, now exclusively release aid shooting only - it all becomes and endless fuss of technology and complexity.
To add to your list:
Recurve bow - ease of maintenance, string changing, DIY string construction, especially in the field
Compound bow - complex maintenance, lots of equipment/tools required (do you still need bow presses for these new compound monstrosities?), repairs/changes in the field less practical
The best way to learn to shoot recurve is really with a recurve.
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Arkhane
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Post by Arkhane on Apr 17, 2015 18:04:01 GMT
Yes, you still need bow presses. At least as far as I know. However, it's very simple to craft your own apparatus.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2015 10:27:13 GMT
Yes, you still need bow presses. At least as far as I know. However, it's very simple to craft your own apparatus. I have a portable bow press for my compound, they are still a pain and you have to worry about multiple strings instead of one!
I reckon shooting a basic bow is much more enjoyable :)
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Arkhane
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Post by Arkhane on Apr 18, 2015 23:44:08 GMT
It's easier for sure. I do enjoy it, but I enjoyed shooting compound a lot more when I had the chance. I will again, though, when China Post gets off their butts and puts my arrow rest on a boat already.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2015 2:54:56 GMT
It's easier for sure. I do enjoy it, but I enjoyed shooting compound a lot more when I had the chance. I will again, though, when China Post gets off their butts and puts my arrow rest on a boat already. Just be careful not to get into compound-gadget-mania, there's always a 'better' rests, sights, arrows, stabilizers, you name it, some are just consumer fads, some might help, but most is a time-waster. Some people spend most of their time at the archery range time swapping out parts on their compound bows, tuning and testing them to see if they can get better scores, we've all been there - rather than just practising! The recurve bows save you from this curse, and they're a lot cheaper to own :)
Let us all know how it goes once you have the rest on your bow!
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Post by bigpete on Apr 19, 2015 4:03:55 GMT
Haven't been on for a couple of days , been hunting red deer ! For your bow I'd look at .300 or .340 spine arrows such as Gold tip 7595 shafts or 2317 alloys. 3 things with whisker biscuits you need to know,they're for release aids only,you really should use blazer vanes with them,and you have to make sure there's no vane contact with the stiffer support bristles that support the arrow at the bottom of the rest. These should be black,with all the rest being brown. You'll probably be hard pressed to get arrows down to the 5gn/# mark with full length shafts and 125gn points. Also 5gn/# is generally considered a manufacturers minimum below that will void warrantee of most companies , high country being one of the few that I believe goes lower theirs is 4gn/#. The above arrow shafts I mentioned will go around 450gn and 550gn respectively.
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Arkhane
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Still figurin' this out.
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Post by Arkhane on Apr 19, 2015 6:37:56 GMT
Haha, I've heard of that gadget gorging habit before. I just have d-loops/mechanical release, stock sights, and now a whisker biscuit on the way. Thought about maybe getting a peep sight, but I probably don't need it. Even if I do, 10 bucks ain't so bad.
Big Pete, gold tipped arrows? Are they really gold tipped or is that just some marketing gimmick? I've only used some wooden arrows and some Easton aluminum lightweight arrows. Like 1019 or something. (My archery jargon ain't up to par, forgive me.)
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Post by bigpete on Apr 19, 2015 8:27:04 GMT
Goldtip is a brand of carbon arrow. I'd advise you do a lot more research on bow hunting and archery in general,some of what's been said isn't just "jargon" its pretty important ! Being familiar with arrow sizing and spine rates,and different brands and such,is actually going to be pretty important if you intend to get serious about this. Basically with alloy arrows, such as 2317, the numbers refer to the physical dimensions of the shaft,which then affects its spine rating. In this case 23 refers to the outside diameter of the shaft in 64ths of an inch,and the 17 is the wall thickness in 100ths of an inch, which then produces a spine deflection of approximately .300. With the carbon arrows the 2 numbers,in goldtips case 7595, refer to the suggested poundage range for which the shaft is meant to be suited for,in this case 75#-95#. And it also has a spine deflection rate of .300. In most cases if a shaft company just refers to a shaft as size 300 or 340 or 400 etc they re referring to that shafts spine deflection rate,and the greater the number the SOFTER the spine rate,and the lower the poundage of bow its suited for. And the opposite s true,the lower the number the stiffer the shaft and the higher the poundage of bow its suited to. Of course,spine rate can be affected by point weight,arrow length,fletching style, release style,poundage,can style,etc. But to make it really easy I can pretty well advise you to use Goldtip 7595 shafts with 125gn points and blazer vanes as a starting point,and I'd be pretty confident you'll get good arrow flight if your bow and form is good and tuned correctly.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2015 10:17:04 GMT
Bigpete's right, there's a lot to learn and research, and getting arrows with the right 'spine' to match your draw weight is critical. Must say enrolling in an archery beginners training class at an archery range can be very helpful, instructors help you fine tune your form and assist you in getting your bow set up and adjusted to fit you, and you learn a lot from your fellow archers who are often willing to help out.
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Arkhane
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Post by Arkhane on Apr 19, 2015 16:35:12 GMT
You have no idea how helpful that info is, big Pete. That's gonna clear up a lot of confusion for me when looking for arrows. Thank you, very much.
I finally found an archery shop I'd be willing to drive to about 60 miles from my location, if that's what it takes to get set up quicker.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2015 23:20:59 GMT
You have no idea how helpful that info is, big Pete. That's gonna clear up a lot of confusion for me when looking for arrows. Thank you, very much. I finally found an archery shop I'd be willing to drive to about 60 miles from my location, if that's what it takes to get set up quicker. Most good archery shops will do a lot of the hard work, they'll test your draw length and draw weight, recommend the right arrow length and spine, set the right nock position on your string, etc.
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