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Post by William Swiger on Mar 11, 2015 9:16:16 GMT
I have purchased both of these models over the last few years. I have no professional or personal relationship with Albion or Christian Fletcher.
Background: Oakeshott describes the Type XVIa as having a long, tapering blade, broad at the hilt, with a sharp, often reinforced, point. Both swords use the same Albion blade. The Crecy is named after one of the most decisive battles of the 100 Years War between the English and French that took place in 1346. The Albion Crecy uses a historical hilt and was of a type of sword that would have seen service on both sides during the 100 Years War. The Borderwatch hilt is inspired from the Lord of the Rings Ranger Sword carried by the character Strider. The same blade used on both models is an example of a later period epee de guerre, or war sword, a refinement of the earlier XIIa in response to changes in the armour of the period. In plain terms, this is a cut and thrust blade.
The Albion Crecy: Overall length: 44.75" Blade length: 35.625" Blade width: 2" CoB: 4" CoP: 21.5" Grip Length: 6.75" Weight: 3 lbs 1 oz Current Price: $880.00 USD
The Christian Fletcher Borderwatch: Overall length: 46" Blade length: 35 1/2" Blade width: 2" Center of Balance: 4" CoP: 21.5" Grip Length: 7.5" Weight: 3 lbs 1 oz Current Price: $1,277.00 USD Scabbard: $703.00 USD
Handling: From my observations, the Crecy feels more substantial in hand. It has more of a solid and hard hitting sword feel. It feels like a war sword. The Borderwatch has more of a lighter feeling presence and in my opinion, feels more like a civilian dueling sword. Both swords will perform their function well and look good doing it. The grip length on the Crecy is long enough for me to place both hands on the grip without any spare room. The pommel can also be used when gripping. The Borderwatch has a longer grip and the shape of the pommel can give you more space if needed. The pommel is more user friendly when gripping than the Crecy.
Personal Impressions: The Crecy is a great value for the price. I really like it and came with zero issues. The Borderwatch did not impress me as much out of the box. The pommel on mine has a slight lateral movement. Not what I would call loose, but it does move slightly or has some play. The scabbard does not hold the sword firmly in place. If I slightly angle the scabbard, the sword comes out. The detail on the scabbard and the chape are very nice. The peening on both swords is visible but not an issue for me. If I had to pick between the 2-swords, I would have to keep the Crecy.
Both swords are nice and for those looking for a LOTR inspired sword with great handling, check out the Borderwatch. Looking for a really good historically accurate sword, check out the Crecy. I like them both. The XVIa for me is a do it all type of blade. It excels at both the cut and thrust.
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Mar 11, 2015 9:32:04 GMT
Thanks Bill I appreciate you taking the time to do this. Bit of a shame about the borderwatch pommel.
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Post by William Swiger on Mar 11, 2015 9:45:32 GMT
Thanks Bill I appreciate you taking the time to do this. Bit of a shame about the borderwatch pommel. It is slight but still annoying. Once I handle the sword for awhile, it does not do it. Maybe the heat I generate on the grip expands the wood and tightens the grip against the pommel.
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Post by Bryan Heff on Mar 11, 2015 11:10:14 GMT
Handsome swords both. Thanks for the comparison review. The Crecy is a sword that has always been on my wants list but is probably down a bit on that list simply because its hilt configuration (straight guard and wheel pommel variant) ends up being my favorite and I have a lot of swords sporting that style of fittings...but that blade on the Crecy/Borderwatch is so cool.
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Post by Curtis_Louis on Mar 11, 2015 11:19:27 GMT
Great comparison! I've seen pictures of earlier Borderwatch swords with ATrim blades. The Crecy seems like the perfect blade to use for that sword. The side by side comparison really demonstrates how versatile that blade is.
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ChrisA
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Post by ChrisA on Mar 11, 2015 13:52:44 GMT
Thanks for this Bill.
While I do love the Crecy there is something special about the Border Watch. This post helped clarify the differences between the 2 and pushed me closer to the Crecy.
I am surprised to hear of the loose pommel and scabbard on the Border Watch. I would not have expected this at all. Did you address this to CF?
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Post by William Swiger on Mar 11, 2015 14:40:26 GMT
Thanks for this Bill. While I do love the Crecy there is something special about the Border Watch. This post helped clarify the differences between the 2 and pushed me closer to the Crecy. I am surprised to hear of the loose pommel and scabbard on the Border Watch. I would not have expected this at all. Did you address this to CF? Didn't bother contacting CF about it.
The play in the pommel is minimal and goes away when handling the sword. I am thinking the pommel relies on the grip contact in a compression to keep it 100% immobile. Since handling it seems to make it stop, I think the grip when handled slightly expands from heat.
It does not affect handling and just does it when it has sat awhile. I might run some oil into the grip and see if it helps. Has worked on Del Tins I bought new before. The oil seemed to expand the contracted wood.
The scabbard for me is just to store the sword but I was surprised with the fit. The sword does not move around in the scabbard (rattle) but does not fit firmly at the throat.
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Post by Huer-Ta on Mar 11, 2015 15:17:32 GMT
Thanks for this comparison, Bill. These are both beautiful pieces. I love the simplicity of the Crecy fittings yet also really like the more fantasy styled look of the Borderwatch. I'd love to get my hands on either one one day, but I find myself leaning a little more towards the Crecy.
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Post by William Swiger on Mar 11, 2015 15:22:52 GMT
Thanks for this comparison, Bill. These are both beautiful pieces. I love the simplicity of the Crecy fittings yet also really like the more fantasy styled look of the Borderwatch. I'd love to get my hands on either one one day, but I find myself leaning a little more towards the Crecy. The stats are very close but to me, they handle completely differently. Thought they would be more similar in handling.
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Aikidoka
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Post by Aikidoka on Mar 11, 2015 15:47:10 GMT
Thanks for the review! The play in the pommel is minimal and goes away when handling the sword. I am thinking the pommel relies on the grip contact in a compression to keep it 100% immobile. Since handling it seems to make it stop, I think the grip when handled slightly expands from heat. I asked Christian a few questions about my Borderwatch as he was making it. My questions are in red and his responses are in blue: 1. Is the pommel hot peened after the grip is installed? From the progress photo and other photos from reviews, it appears that the grip is wrapped while it is off of the tang, then it is installed and the pommel is attached. That's right.2. Is the grip attached to the tang in any way (I think Albion epoxies theirs) or is it a friction fit?The grip inlet is slightly undersized so the grip must be forced down the last half inch, making for a very tight compression fit. No epoxy is used as it is mostly forced back out by the compression.3. The lower end of the leather grip extends over the beginning of the pommel. Is this because, if the leather was compressed by the pommel when it was peened, the grip would eventually become loose with use?This is mostly an aesthetic choice based on historical precedent. I do sometimes compress the leather between hilt components, just not on this model.Here is the progress photo that I referred to: I have cut with my Borderwatch a LOT and the pommel (as well as the rest of the hilt) is still rock solid. Sorry to hear yours is loose, Bill.
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Post by William Swiger on Mar 11, 2015 15:55:19 GMT
I ran some oil down into the grip on both sides a few minutes ago. Will see if that expands the wood a little.
Thanks for confirming the compression fitting.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 17:40:24 GMT
I can confirm Bills statements on the pommel because he demonstrated it to me while i was paying him a visit last month. As my Borderwatch has some minor issues itself (one-sided gap between crossguard and blade, not really tight-fitting scabbard) i am questioning the price point of these ladies a little; i do not really complain because i bought mine second hand from Aureleien here, so no full price at all. For full price on the other hand, i certainly would have contacted CF . But get me right, MINOR flaws, awesome sword and scabbard nevertheless!
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Aikidoka
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Post by Aikidoka on Mar 11, 2015 17:57:08 GMT
Here is another comment that Christian made regarding the way the guard is attached:
" I also additionally use Peter Johnsson's technique of punching the edge of the guard opening into the tang to further secure the guard."
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Post by Huer-Ta on Mar 11, 2015 19:46:18 GMT
I'm curious as to why these swords handle differently. The stats seem to be just about identical, maybe the longer grip of the Borderwatch makes it handle differently? I guess I'll just have to come over and play with these to find out for myself, hahahaha.
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Post by Bryan Heff on Mar 11, 2015 19:56:56 GMT
I'm curious as to why these swords handle differently. The stats seem to be just about identical, maybe the longer grip of the Borderwatch makes it handle differently? I guess I'll just have to come over and play with these to find out for myself, hahahaha. That has to be it...that longer grip and possibly (most likely) a different weight in the fittings. It's really interesting these seemingly small things making huge differences on the final stats. Yet another reason why I personally love the comparison review...awesome stuff. Thanks Bill, great stuff.
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Post by William Swiger on Mar 11, 2015 20:44:26 GMT
There are variations in same model Albion blades and the Borderwatch has a longer tang and different fittings. Surprised me the Borderwatch felt much lighter in hand.
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ChrisA
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Post by ChrisA on Mar 11, 2015 20:56:37 GMT
I would make an uneducated guess and say that the longer grip has an effect on the rotation of a swing: the pommel has a longer distance to travel for the same motion as a shorter grip. I'm sure one of our many talented sword makers on this forum can tell us for sure.
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Aikidoka
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Post by Aikidoka on Mar 11, 2015 21:39:46 GMT
I'll try to post a better picture when I get home. I zoomed in on that photo and it looks like a dark mark on the tang. Also, when I zoom in on the pommel, I see a long, narrow slot for the tang.
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Aikidoka
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Post by Aikidoka on Mar 12, 2015 0:02:52 GMT
Here's a zoomed-in view of the tang and pommel. Looks like a dark smudge on the tang and, as I mentioned above, you can make out a tang slot in the base of the pommel. Now that I think about it, didn't Zach's review of his Borderwatch have a progress photo showing the pommel before peening? Edit: Found it!
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Post by LemuelTheLemur on Mar 12, 2015 4:07:21 GMT
Huh, so it is peened :) I always assumed it was a threaded construction due to the extra length compared to the crecy
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