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Post by justin520 on Feb 21, 2015 18:31:05 GMT
I remember reading somewhere that the Chinese triad favored meat cleavers as a fighting impliment for a very long time and wondered if there was an existing syllabus on cleaver fighting. Now I know the triad were gangsters first, but they were high level and saw tons of violence so training at some point had to become a necessity, especially in a country where gun fights would draw way too much attention and guns are hard to obtain. I also wonder, may they have just based cleaver use off of butterfly swords/knives? They seem relatively similar and Chinese martial history sees a lot of reusing one weapons techniques on another new weapon (miao dao to dadao comes to mind). It's just really interesting to me because while we probably will never draw our swords in a use of force defensive encounter it makes me wonder how some of our martial arts transfer to modern edged tools.
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Post by Cosmoline on Feb 21, 2015 22:13:21 GMT
Problem is you can only cut with cleavers, and the flat blade really limits the kind of cuts you can make. I would think a general kitchen knife would be more practical for a knife fight. You can use most basic knife fighting techniques with those.
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Post by justin520 on Feb 21, 2015 22:30:04 GMT
You can chop, plus you can thrust with the blunt square tip, wont penetrate but it'll hurt lol.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Feb 22, 2015 2:45:40 GMT
You can chop, plus you can thrust with the blunt square tip, wont penetrate but it'll hurt lol. An angled thrust will penetrate, just not very well, however (in my faded memory) I seem to remember these were used somewhat like butterfly knives with a circular slashing motion, given the extra weight they were fearsome weapons in practised hands.
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Post by crazywolf on Feb 22, 2015 18:11:44 GMT
I wonder to if they weren't using the Chinese type of cleaver it is a lot thinner and lighter then our type of cleaver.it can chop but also be used like a kitchen knife to slice and dice.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Feb 22, 2015 19:58:18 GMT
There are 3 different types of "Chinese cleavers": thin kitchen slicers, kitchen choppers (doing the same kind of job as a Western cleaver - cutting through bones), and butcher knives (larger than the kitchen ones). The pointy butcher knives would be better fighting knives. (See bottom for www.chanchikee.com/ChineseKnives.html for some nice butcher knives.) They don't use them because they're good weapons, or have fancy martial arts for them. They use them because: (a) they intimidate people (they're large and visible knives), and (b) they're cheap and disposable. Rather than bother learning how to fight with them "properly", the standard technique appears to be to outnumber the victim by 20 to 1. The victim is scared, and pays the protection money.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2015 22:33:16 GMT
You know, as soon as I saw this I was inclined to think "it's a matter of rounding up a bunch of rough looking dudes and grabbing the nearest thing at hand to hack up whoever isn't paying you or who's trying to muscle in on your turf". It kind of seems like a case of over-thinking things.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Feb 23, 2015 15:06:55 GMT
before the triads,guns,gangsta,protection money "weapons" were what you had to hand, as such you trained with your "tools" The horse bench form became stylized in "chop-socky" movies but had it's basis from tea-houses of the period, so too the farmers hoe, the butchers cleaver and so on, Bollywood, the shaw brothers and Raymond Chow brought these to the cinema and patrons lapped them up.
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