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Post by Gunnar Wolfgard on Jan 25, 2015 13:30:36 GMT
She probably just read the instruction book that came with the sword. No really, Walmart sells them. The packaging reads " You too can become a Samurai Warrior the Walmart way and never be bullied at school again". Then again you'll probably never get a date for the prom either.  |
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Post by Matthew.Jensen on Jan 25, 2015 13:42:20 GMT
Not really the intention. I asked where this 'style' originated from when which I came across while browsing YouTube. My opinion is that it seems peculiar as is shared by others. The age of the practitioners shouldnt be an issue. That problem falls on the teachers of this supposed martial art. If like myself you valued something that is a real martial art and something that is made up, I think it would be to the benefit of the community to know what to avoid. Just saying ya know? I can respect that your intention was not to insult anyone. Though someone here might know one of the folks in the videos or they maybe members themselves. If it was you in the video and the comments made were the same, would you feel insulted? I understand that your opinion may be shared but that is not the point. Do you think its appropriate to post a video of a young girl in a martial arts competition. With the note "This girls scream sounds worse than a horror movie and she would have chopped her ponytail off at 50 seconds if it was an actual shinken lol." ? I know there is nothing preventing you from doing it. Perhaps there is some conversation to be had about why some styles do this or that. Perhaps how martial arts are taught in the US vs other location.. I am only saying that if I were her parent or her I would be offended. It seems like the kind of commentary you would find in the youtube comments section. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 13:52:03 GMT
Yeah it's pretty clearly a dumping ground. I'm not crazy about this sort of 'martial art', either in case that matters.
It wouldn't be cool to go through the Member's Cutting Videos and tear posters here a new one, so why do it to strangers?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 13:55:05 GMT
Not really the intention. I asked where this 'style' originated from when which I came across while browsing YouTube. My opinion is that it seems peculiar as is shared by others. The age of the practitioners shouldnt be an issue. That problem falls on the teachers of this supposed martial art. If like myself you valued something that is a real martial art and something that is made up, I think it would be to the benefit of the community to know what to avoid. Just saying ya know? I can respect that your intention was not to insult anyone. Though someone here might know one of the folks in the videos or they maybe members themselves. If it was you in the video and the comments made were the same, would you feel insulted? I understand that your opinion may be shared but that is not the point. Do you think its appropriate to post a video of a young girl in a martial arts competition. With the note "This girls scream sounds worse than a horror movie and she would have chopped her ponytail off at 50 seconds if it was an actual shinken lol." ? I know there is nothing preventing you from doing it. Perhaps there is some conversation to be had about why some styles do this or that. Perhaps how martial arts are taught in the US vs other location.. I am only saying that if I were her parent or her I would be offended. It seems like the kind of commentary you would find in the youtube comments section. Okay, well you are paraphrasing a statement which I made about those particular techniques and I stand by them. As far as I know, I'm not aware of styles that value overly aggressive displays over etiquette and courtesy. Like I said, it's what the teachers are teaching them that I find distasteful. If I sound overly critical it is because I find it concerning watching what is potentially a very dangerous 'style' shown on YouTube that others might copy and seriously hurt themselves. It just gives off the wrong impression ya know? |
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Post by Matthew.Jensen on Jan 25, 2015 14:13:26 GMT
I can respect that your intention was not to insult anyone. Though someone here might know one of the folks in the videos or they maybe members themselves. If it was you in the video and the comments made were the same, would you feel insulted? I understand that your opinion may be shared but that is not the point. Do you think its appropriate to post a video of a young girl in a martial arts competition. With the note "This girls scream sounds worse than a horror movie and she would have chopped her ponytail off at 50 seconds if it was an actual shinken lol." ? I know there is nothing preventing you from doing it. Perhaps there is some conversation to be had about why some styles do this or that. Perhaps how martial arts are taught in the US vs other location.. I am only saying that if I were her parent or her I would be offended. It seems like the kind of commentary you would find in the youtube comments section. Okay, well you are paraphrasing a statement which I made about those particular techniques and I stand by them. As far as I know, I'm not aware of styles that value overly aggressive displays over etiquette and courtesy. Like I said, it's what the teachers are teaching them that I find distasteful. If I sound overly critical it is because I find it concerning watching what is potentially a very dangerous 'style' shown on YouTube that others might copy and seriously hurt themselves. I don't think I'm paraphrasing.. maybe I don't know what that means... I think I am quoting you as the quote I made was the full text of your third post in this thread. Based on your third post I would not have guessed that you don't approve of the teachers methods. It seemed a bit more like you were mocking a child. If you don't see anything about that one might consider in bad taste, then I will just stop here. We can agree to disagree. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 14:30:42 GMT
Okay, well you are paraphrasing a statement which I made about those particular techniques and I stand by them. As far as I know, I'm not aware of styles that value overly aggressive displays over etiquette and courtesy. Like I said, it's what the teachers are teaching them that I find distasteful. If I sound overly critical it is because I find it concerning watching what is potentially a very dangerous 'style' shown on YouTube that others might copy and seriously hurt themselves. I don't think I'm paraphrasing.. maybe I don't know what that means... I think I am quoting you as the quote I made was the full text of your third post in this thread. Based on your third post I would not have guessed that you don't approve of the teachers methods. It seemed a bit more like you were mocking a child. If you don't see anything about that one might consider in bad taste, then I will just stop here. We can agree to disagree. I can change the video to a different practitioner then who is older If you like. These just happened to be the first ones I came across. There's probably 100's of videos of this X.M.A. with similar demonstrations. |
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Post by sadatoni on Jan 25, 2015 14:43:55 GMT
That one girl is channeling Godzilla.
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Post by nddave on Jan 25, 2015 18:34:06 GMT
Okay, well you are paraphrasing a statement which I made about those particular techniques and I stand by them. As far as I know, I'm not aware of styles that value overly aggressive displays over etiquette and courtesy. Like I said, it's what the teachers are teaching them that I find distasteful. If I sound overly critical it is because I find it concerning watching what is potentially a very dangerous 'style' shown on YouTube that others might copy and seriously hurt themselves. I don't think I'm paraphrasing.. maybe I don't know what that means... I think I am quoting you as the quote I made was the full text of your third post in this thread. Based on your third post I would not have guessed that you don't approve of the teachers methods. It seemed a bit more like you were mocking a child. If you don't see anything about that one might consider in bad taste, then I will just stop here. We can agree to disagree. You are though. I'm not one to pick fights here but it looks like that was your intention. Using the friendly forum as an excuse to counter troll the OP. Sure a few jokes were made but nothing truly personally insulting aside from the exorcist jab. Sure they're kids but still that should be an even bigger warning sign to this kind of practice and what it could do regarding amateur influences. I can also understand how such fake showboating could hit a nerve with traditional martial artists. For example the post a few pages back talking about how traditional kendo and Iaito practitioners don't get the time of day at these events and tournaments anymore anf that his school doesn't attend them because so. But there's also a bigger concern among the sword buying community. How many people will post here asking for sword suggestions then go out and try something like this with their new Hanwei or Munetoshi in their own BYC video? Or worse try to mimic it in some self defense situation? It's not even really about snobbery of traditionalism over new age or whatever. It's the fact that this is being promoted mainstream as a martial art when it's not and the effect such promotion has on practical and functional martial arts. Sure the snide remarks could be avoided but regardless this is a open forum and members have the right to joke and give personal opinions on anything posted. Nothing posted has actually been derogatory enough for the mods to step in so let's not make it more of a big deal than it is. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 18:39:24 GMT
Applause & chapeau to you, NdDave!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 21:55:10 GMT
This discussion is a commentary about a perversion of traditional martial arts into silly albeit highly skilled acrobatic performance arts, the OPs question was about the origins of such a practice, and the discussion clearly identifies the historical source and influences.
People being criticized for doing something inappropriate may be offended, or they may come to a greater understanding by looking beyond their preconceived beliefs and unquestioned worldviews. In many eastern traditions the martial arts are founded on a deep philosophical foundation, and whether they adhere to this or merely pay lip service in the present day and age is beside the point. The historical purpose in Japanese culture of any "-do", such as aikodo, kendo, karate-do, judo, iaido, kyudo and so on is as a means of self cultivation, based on the principles of Zen Buddhism. These things hold important cultural significance, and represent a significant historical shift in the evolution of Japanese culture as the focus of the nation shifted away from a martial to a more peaceful national identity. The "-do" means "the way of", it is a "way of self cultivation". Read correctly, iaido is "the way of drawing the sword". It's not just how to draw a sword, it's more than that, it's how to utilize the art of drawing the sword as a way or means of self-cultivation, with the ultimate aim being a Zen state of becoming one with the perfected action and losing the state of psychological separateness, achieving the "oneness" they speak of in Zen philosophy. Martial arts are not exclusively used for this process either, "the way" includes arts such as calligraphy (shodo) and tea ceremony (chado) amongst many other arts.
If anything, what would be offensive to a lot more people, particularly to Japanese culture in general, and to anyone who has respect for Japanese history and eastern philosophy, is the trivialising of Japanese cultural practises which promote self-cultivation, harmony and peace, turning them into showy, crass, westernised displays of aggression and machismo. This is typical of the west's iconoclastic attitude which is generally disrespectful of other cultures and unthinkingly profanes what is culturally important and sacred to other people.
The discussions here are friendlier than other sword forums, in other places beginners are torn to shreds for asking innocent questions, evidence is online for the reading for anyone who disputes this, but that's off-topic and not a debate I wish to start here.
It's important to judge the statements made in the context of the higher perspective of the topic and it's far reaching significance in relation to the historical context of Japanese cultural practise rather that select portions in isolation which can be taken out of context.
Hope this clarifies the intent of the discussion. |
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Post by Robert in California on Jan 26, 2015 17:40:05 GMT
The problem I have with that young girl doing what is an impressive display of sword acrobatics, showing excellent control and balance. Is not the good acrobatics, but her spirit....is it good for so much anger, even apparent rage, to be much of the energy source for that display of physical and hand2eye coordination?
I do not see issues so much with the form...tai chi is perhaps the polar opposite of that girl's performance.
Rather with her spirit...
RinC
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Post by KaOsBlaKbLaDe on Jan 26, 2015 18:00:41 GMT
Im not sure which is worse, me asking the next question,.....or thinking i know the answer.
so,.........is DBZ= dragon ball Z?
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Jan 26, 2015 18:18:53 GMT
I'm kinda surprised how much negativity those few videos have gotten.
I see XMA as bit similar to that Karate kata competition shown in this thread, or modern iaido championships etc. All of them are judged like dancing, figure skating, etc. similar sports.
When I was youngster doing modern iai, I was asked to be a part of a clubs team for national iaido championships. I declined because I thought the whole idea of iaido championships is really stupid. Similar to that karate kata championship it's just liked choregraphed dancing, which will then be judged by a panel of judges.
I think the image about warriors of Japan is way too "pure" in the western world. Japanese warriors were just as obnoxious and horrible as warriors from other cultures.
Screaming for example is a common thing around the world. It usually shows spirit and I believe screaming/shouting was common among the warriors of the old. I have to agree that in the XMA videos they go way overboard with screaming and it becomes funny instead of intimidating...
I think someone deciding to practice martial arts should research things he will be participating in. It seems the lack of research is very common nowdays...
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Post by justin520 on Jan 26, 2015 18:28:06 GMT
Im not sure which is worse, me asking the next question,.....or thinking i know the answer. so,.........is DBZ= dragon ball Z? Yes |
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Post by KaOsBlaKbLaDe on Jan 26, 2015 18:45:58 GMT
I'm fine with this type of "art", but i don't see it as a martial art at all.
Makes me think of Indiana Jones when he shot the big arab dude doin the sword flourish.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2015 21:36:34 GMT
I'm kinda surprised how much negativity those few videos have gotten. I see XMA as bit similar to that Karate kata competition shown in this thread, or modern iaido championships etc. All of them are judged like dancing, figure skating, etc. similar sports. When I was youngster doing modern iai, I was asked to be a part of a clubs team for national iaido championships. I declined because I thought the whole idea of iaido championships is really stupid. Similar to that karate kata championship it's just liked choregraphed dancing, which will then be judged by a panel of judges. I think the image about warriors of Japan is way too "pure" in the western world. Japanese warriors were just as obnoxious and horrible as warriors from other cultures. Screaming for example is a common thing around the world. It usually shows spirit and I believe screaming/shouting was common among the warriors of the old. I have to agree that in the XMA videos they go way overboard with screaming and it becomes funny instead of intimidating... I think someone deciding to practice martial arts should research things he will be participating in. It seems the lack of research is very common nowdays... Jussi, unfortunately some iaido competitions do resemble this, and that is a very bad thing for iaido. I have seen an iaido judge's comment online on other forums about his disappointment with competitors performing a "sword dance" devoid of intent, just waving their arms about, going through the motions, with sword in hand. This particular judge commented that after the competition the, he approached the competitors and asked them to repeat their kata, this time visualising an opponent that they were fighting, and by his assessment, the difference was clearly visible.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2015 21:46:03 GMT
The problem I have with that young girl doing what is an impressive display of sword acrobatics, showing excellent control and balance. Is not the good acrobatics, but her spirit....is it good for so much anger, even apparent rage, to be much of the energy source for that display of physical and hand2eye coordination? I do not see issues so much with the form...tai chi is perhaps the polar opposite of that girl's performance. Rather with her spirit... RinC Thinking of it like that and after I just came back from the gym, my mind started to compare to it those loud, obnoxious steroid freaks screaming and shouting in the gym while throwing heavy weights on the floor. What is the point?? Does there spirit feel the need put on a false show and act all superior over other people? Its very disrespectful and puts others off wanting to go. The same applies to this 'martial art'. The teachers must have the same undisciplined and non refined attitude as them. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2015 22:07:45 GMT
The problem I have with that young girl doing what is an impressive display of sword acrobatics, showing excellent control and balance. Is not the good acrobatics, but her spirit....is it good for so much anger, even apparent rage, to be much of the energy source for that display of physical and hand2eye coordination? I do not see issues so much with the form...tai chi is perhaps the polar opposite of that girl's performance. Rather with her spirit... RinC Thinking of it like that and after I just came back from the gym, my mind started to compare to it those loud, obnoxious steroid freaks screaming and shouting in the gym while throwing heavy weights on the floor. What is the point?? Does there spirit feel the need put on a false show and act all superior over other people? Its very disrespectful and puts others off wanting to go. The same applies to this 'martial art'. The teachers must have the same undisciplined and non refined attitude as them. Yeah, I can't stand those people in gyms who feel they need to draw attention to themselves. Issues with insecurity about their masculinity. If they can't place the weight down on the ground slowly, then it's too heavy for them, lol!
It happens in some martial arts schools too, when you get some clown who has something to prove and has a chip on their shoulder often too. I've seen the same thing in an aikido dojo of all things, was just visiting, there was a senior student there, a real show-off who seemed to want to shout his lungs out at every opportunity to the point where it became irritating for me as a spectator. Hate to think how the other students felt...
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Post by sadatoni on Jan 26, 2015 22:10:17 GMT
I see this as a cross between gymnastics and martial arts. I don't care for it, but I can see where some could.
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Post by Arthur Dayne on Jan 26, 2015 22:36:52 GMT
One of the reasons I stopped going to Gyms was because of all the loud grunting and sweating that the people around me do. In the shower rooms there's always that one guy who keeps his hand on his private part as if he was going to lose it if he let go.
So about the loud grunting, they are the sort that sound like "ugh ugh ugh ugh" or "unnnnnnnnngh unnnnngh" (trying my best to spell the sounds) and though one should expect to hear these noises while in a gym accessible by the general public, it does wear thin and gets offensive. I sometimes hear shouting and screaming but those are fairly comprehensible and not as annoying because you can sort of understand the words, the grunting though is not.
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