|
Omg
Jan 24, 2015 23:40:23 GMT
Post by Timo Nieminen on Jan 24, 2015 23:40:23 GMT
A good example of this is the holding arrows in the hand. He acts like no one else has done that until he resurrected it. But traditional archery hunters have never stopped doing that. This was never a lost art, but he wants to take credit for resurrecting it. Still done in kyudo too. (Then there are folks (e.g., in New Guinea) who traditionally shoot with extra arrows in their bow hand.)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Omg
Jan 25, 2015 0:46:22 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 0:46:22 GMT
Mate I've always hunted with basic gear of up to 90# draw weight. My problem with him is not that he's fast and accurate,its in him saying that he has rediscovered an age old method of shooting war bows. No,he hasn't. He had created a method of shooting a lot of arrows very quickly while LARPing,that's all. And let's get real,a 30# bow pulled to half draw has not got the power to do diddly squat. I wouldn't even shoot rabbits with it,let alone a human in any sort of clothing. Is he ridiculously fast,yes. Is he super accurate,yes,but so are a handful of other dedicated archers. Is he truly rediscovering a lost art? I seriously doubt it. That's not saying that during the course of history there haven't been other freakishly fast and accurate archers,but it would have been a massive exception to the norm. As Draven said,let's see him shoot that quickly drawing a 100# English longbow to 32", or a 130# Mongolian horn bow to 36"! It would not be humanly impossible to shoot those sort of WAR bows as quickly a he does. And now I prepare myself to be proven wrong :-) Okay, I get what you're saying, I'm with you on that one. Given the guy does have exceptional speed and accuracy, and that many cultures have shot bows in so many ways as archery evolved there's probably a fair bit of truth in what he is saying in certain historical contexts but that's just my speculation. If we're talking high draw weight war bows, I agree, you could definitely not shoot them at such high speed.
|
|
|
Omg
Jan 25, 2015 2:00:53 GMT
Post by bigpete on Jan 25, 2015 2:00:53 GMT
The bit where he shoots through chain mail? So what ? I could stab a screwdriver through that ! And speaking from experience that's not the only thing you got to get through to kill,you got cloth,fur,skin,flesh and bone before you get to vitals. I literally stand behind my previous statement concerning not even shooting a rabbit with his equipment. Also,unlike guns, a more powerful bow doesn't automatically mean more damage. It just means more penetration. The width of the point plus the depth of penetration is hit causes damage. I'd just about put money on the fact you could wear some thick clothing and get away with being shot with his gear. Hey,if you could do the job with a 35# bow half drawn,then why have all the societies that relied upon bows for warfare choose to shoot 100+# bows and extra long extra heavy arrows ?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Omg
Jan 25, 2015 4:13:19 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 4:13:19 GMT
Hey bigpete, if you've even been to an archery club you'd hate it!
The target archers shoot bows around 30#, with weightless super-thin carbon arrows that have so little kinetic energy it's not funny. Add 6x magnifying sights with micrometer adjustments calibrated to the marked shooting ranges on the ground, stabilizers and counterweights extending off stalks in every direction like an electrocuted spider's legs, and a hair trigger release aid to cap it off.
Then you get the ultra-high tech 'hunters' who shoot 3D using the latest high-tech compound bows they can buy with fast cams, draw weights they can barely handle, with the lightest arrows possible before the bow self-destructs to get the flattest trajectories and the highest feet per second arrow speeds, so they can stand at pre-marked distances from their targets using pre-set sights for the marked distances while stuffing around with trigger releases.
Is this archery, or a sport that resembles it?
As you point out, bows are not firearms, and the blades of an arrowhead determine the effectiveness as long as the arrow is heavy enough to carry enough kinetic energy as it cuts its way through the target. Most archers never learn to shoot anything other than light arrows with target or field points. By mistakenly thinking they could actually use proper hunting weight arrows with broadheads, they never learn to use 'real arrows' and spend all their time getting fussed over the pettiest things like the slightest vibration or recoil in their bows which causes them to add so many gadgets to their bows that they spend most of their time fine tuning the gadgets rather than training.
Many archers find barebow archery frustrating because it requires more practise to get accurate, and there is almost nothing to adjust and play with, all you can do is and practice shooting till your archery skills improve. Some people don't like that because they keep looking to buy a better version of this or that gadget to give you them that elusive edge, then they spend days adjusting the said gadget, then when they actually start doing some practise a new gadget is released, all the archery magazines start bragging about it, and then all these archers need to buy this better gadget, then they spend weeks retuning their bow for the new gadget...
|
|
|
Omg
Jan 25, 2015 6:40:52 GMT
Post by bigpete on Jan 25, 2015 6:40:52 GMT
Trust me I'm familiar with target archers and target archery and I don't like it. I've played the high tech game before but I'd rather shoot my bows then spend all my time tuning them. Bow hunters these days are only after instant gratification and the chance to get their names up in lights as it were. Very rarely re they interested in the history of the sport or anything else outside their narrow vision of archery it pisses me off. :-)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Omg
Jan 25, 2015 7:50:33 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 7:50:33 GMT
Trust me I'm familiar with target archers and target archery and I don't like it. I've played the high tech game before but I'd rather shoot my bows then spend all my time tuning them. Bow hunters these days are only after instant gratification and the chance to get their names up in lights as it were. Very rarely re they interested in the history of the sport or anything else outside their narrow vision of archery it pisses me off. :-) I'm the same, I got fed up playing around with the bows rather than practising with them, so now I like to keep it simple, practical and real, it's much more satisfying :)
|
|
|
Omg
Jan 25, 2015 22:12:52 GMT
Post by Sir Thorfinn on Jan 25, 2015 22:12:52 GMT
I think the thing his detractors are missing here is this...he's trying by trial and error how to recreate this style. There's just not much documentation. I also question how effective this would be against even light armor, but just because he's using a light bow doesn't mean he'd be less impressive with a heavier draw, and a little bit slower...
|
|
|
Omg
Jan 26, 2015 3:25:02 GMT
Post by ineffableone on Jan 26, 2015 3:25:02 GMT
I think the thing his detractors are missing here is this...he's trying by trial and error how to recreate this style. There's just not much documentation. I also question how effective this would be against even light armor, but just because he's using a light bow doesn't mean he'd be less impressive with a heavier draw, and a little bit slower... The big problem is he isn't trying to recreate some style, he is taking modern trick shooting mixing some stuff he saw Legolas do in LOTR and the Hobbit and calling it something it isn't. Two big examples of his pretending he is rediscovering something that did not need rediscovering 1) He did not rediscover instinctive shooting. People have been doing it continuously since the early days of archery. Gun shooters even use it. 2) He did not rediscover holding arrows in the hand. Archers have been doing it continuously. and the list goes on. Like putting the arrow on the right, if you do the Mediterranean draw (split finger) you will always have your arrow pulling away from the bow because the draw twists the string and thus the nock and the entire arrow. His claims are BS. Rather than these videos showing him do a ton of different stuff. I challenge him to do a series of videos showing him continuously doing the same tricks over and over. Because guess what with his BSery I don't believe he can reliably do them every time. I think he does these trick over and over then only shows clips of the few times he actually succeeds.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Omg
Jan 26, 2015 3:41:28 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2015 3:41:28 GMT
He might not be 100% factually correct, but that's pretty damn impressive accuracy or speed, even if it could only be done every one in ten shots. All archers who shoot traditionally shoot bare bow instinctively, I doubt he's claiming he rediscovered that!
|
|
|
Omg
Jan 26, 2015 5:54:43 GMT
Post by ineffableone on Jan 26, 2015 5:54:43 GMT
BTW one of the other speed archers Lars says he is better than is this young kid.
Notice this kid seems to have no trouble placing the arrow on the other side of the bow in one fluid simple motion.
Also note this kid actually does a full draw to a repeatable anchor point.
Yet he still gets some amazingly fast shooting.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Omg
Jan 26, 2015 6:35:20 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2015 6:35:20 GMT
Trained with a young guy at the archery range many years ago who could shoot that fast from a back quiver with his recurve bow, it was around 35# but he was a fairly thin person, and at 20 yards in the indoor range he could shoot fairly accurately too, not bullseyes with every shot or anything, but decent scores. He was more accurate when he took his time for each shot though.
|
|
|
Omg
Jan 26, 2015 17:03:50 GMT
Post by Sir Thorfinn on Jan 26, 2015 17:03:50 GMT
Lol....I stand corrected. I can say if I was on the battlefield and this guy was at the other I don't know if I could charge him with that much crap running down my leg...just too accurate. It would definitely be a berserker charge, cuz you're going to get hit, its just a matter of how debilitating will it be. I'd have hated to be fighting the Huns or Mongols...good grief
|
|
|
Omg
Jan 26, 2015 19:14:33 GMT
Post by bigpete on Jan 26, 2015 19:14:33 GMT
Hmmm I very nearly reckon I can shoot as fast as that young bloke... I don't know for sure though a I've never timed myself. There is also a Russian lady who shoots pretty darn quick from a backquiver and gets full draw,look up Murmansk dagger technique and there is a video of a reasonably attractive redhead girl who can empty a quiver pretty darn quick and very accurate too. And she shoots with a backquiver on the "wrong" side f the bow according to Lars. The biggest difference is these other shooters actually have some humility and don't go around telling the whole world that MAJOR concepts in archery are incorrect just because they've formulated a different technique. If you want to see a real battle archer practicing his skills, look up kassai lajos and his horse back archery and other battle techniques with bows,spears,swords and axes. And again with him we see something Lars doesn't have; humility.
|
|
|
Omg
Jan 26, 2015 22:00:47 GMT
Post by mindfulloffire on Jan 26, 2015 22:00:47 GMT
this just blew me away. nice share.
|
|
|
Omg
Jan 28, 2015 4:02:30 GMT
Post by ineffableone on Jan 28, 2015 4:02:30 GMT
|
|
|
Omg
Jan 28, 2015 6:07:28 GMT
Post by bigpete on Jan 28, 2015 6:07:28 GMT
Huh in bow hunting circles his "new" double draw technique has been referred to as the push/pull method for a long as I can remember! Yet another thing he is taking credit for that already existed
|
|
|
Omg
Jan 28, 2015 12:12:01 GMT
via mobile
Post by mindfulloffire on Jan 28, 2015 12:12:01 GMT
Huh in bow hunting circles his "new" double draw technique has been referred to as the push/pull method for a long as I can remember! Yet another thing he is taking credit for that already existed In the video the narrator discusses how these techniques already existed but faded out of popularity
|
|
|
Omg
Jan 28, 2015 17:56:29 GMT
Post by Rifleman Lizard on Jan 28, 2015 17:56:29 GMT
So much bullsemprini and misrepresentation in the video it only discredits what talent Lars does have, which is speed. If you wanna more know more about why Lars Andersen's presentation is full of semprini, be sure to check out Mike Loades' response on his facebook page, or any other knowledgeable archery circle for that matter. This article sums it up pretty well. geekdad.com/2015/01/danish-archer/
|
|
|
Omg
Jan 28, 2015 18:27:38 GMT
Post by mindfulloffire on Jan 28, 2015 18:27:38 GMT
man people really get all bent out of shape about internet videos.
i don't get why people get all tied up in the details of everything the narrator said instead of saying the demo was pretty rad.
|
|
|
Omg
Jan 28, 2015 19:33:54 GMT
Post by Rifleman Lizard on Jan 28, 2015 19:33:54 GMT
Because there's more to the video than keen and impressive ninja-isms. I'm not bent out of shape at all, just calling a spade a spade along with plenty of other coaches and long-time archers. Is it not obvious the narrator represents the presentation as something it isn't? Given that the narrator is Lars' close friend and not some anonymous entity beyond his control, people have a right to call out the misrepresentation and ignorance present in the video. They're relevant to the extensive claims he makes on the subject. Lars repeatedly shoots a 30lb bow at barely half draw, awkwardly jumps around his bouncy castle hitting targets less than a few feet away and then has the audacity to claim he's discovered "lost" skills and the methods of military archers, despite his own archery being nothing of the sort. Then there's the heavy editing, claiming to penetrate "chainmail" with a bow draw of only a few pounds, and the rest. The general consensus in every archery circle I frequent is that this is a cool parlor trick. An impressive display of speed, no question, but a flamboyant and stylized parlor trick designed to entertain and not educate no less. Certainly not military archery in any capacity, according to the Mongolian, Scythian and other eastern professionals at least (Mr Loades being only one of them). Is that misrepresentation? Definitely. Was the demo pretty rad? Yeah very cool. "Andersen should stick to demonstrations of speed shooting and leave questions of science, history and modern archery skills to people who actually know something about those things. Along the same lines, web editors should check with competent experts before uncritically repeating nonsense." Anyway, here is Mike Loades should anyone wanna take a look. www.facebook.com/mikeloades?fref=ts
|
|