Greg E
Member
little bit of this... and a whole lot of that
Posts: 1,336
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Post by Greg E on Sept 4, 2015 3:50:32 GMT
Yes, the central core hard steel was well centered. The core has a nice thickness to it and doesn't appear to wander. Now that is good to hear.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Sept 4, 2015 4:00:21 GMT
I think that is an important aspect that sometimes gets overlooked. The first blade may have gone astray, but if the vendor can fix the issues then it shouldn't be such a foul, even if the extra time sucks or it would push the date back unacceptably(present or such). If they respond poorly, or muss up the second, or refuse to refund a flawed blade then they should get a mark.
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addertooth
Member
Working the tsuka on two bare blades from Ninja-Katana, slow progress
Posts: 458
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Post by addertooth on Sept 4, 2015 13:27:44 GMT
I think that is an important aspect that sometimes gets overlooked. The first blade may have gone astray, but if the vendor can fix the issues then it shouldn't be such a foul, even if the extra time sucks or it would push the date back unacceptably(present or such). If they respond poorly, or muss up the second, or refuse to refund a flawed blade then they should get a mark. Overnight, one of the two remaining vendors sent me pictures of the replacement blades. From the normal photographs the replacement blades appear to have lamination lines in the appropriate place. When they arrive they can have closer scrutiny applied to them. If Ryan sends photos of the replacement shihozume blade, then at least "photos" of all the replacement blades will be on hand.
I strongly agree that a vendor who tries to make things right after a mistake is a very good thing. Some vendors might make no attempt to rectify errors. To Ryan's defense (which can be dangerous in this environment), he does send low resolution photos of the swords before he ships, so you can at least confirm the fittings are the right type, the samegawa, Ito and sageo are the right colors. The photos lack enough detail to determine if the lamination is correct.
There is the reasonable argument in the reverse direction as well. Seven of the nine Ebay-ordered laminated blades (ordered through various Ebay sellers) were simply maru Damascus. Mistakes tend to be random in nature, when you see a trend, you may start to believe it is a pattern of behavior among Longquan Ebay sellers. Some believe it is a numbers game. Maru blades are less expensive to make than complex laminated blades. If they can sell maru blades as laminated blades (such as sanmai, honsanmai, shihozume, kobuse, gyaku kobuse) at a premium price, there is the temptation to increase profits via this mechanism. For the one out of 100 purchasers who have the tooling or skill to detect the difference, you can send them replacement blades without hammering your profit model too badly. I tend to be a hopeful person who wants to believe people are good for the most part. As long as the vendor will make things right, it goes a long ways towards making me a satisfied customer.
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Post by MessengerofDarkness on Sept 4, 2015 14:15:38 GMT
While its true that resolving the issue may be a good thing, there's also the fact that they should have gotten it right the first time - any sword maker/seller worth their salt should know of the difference between a folded and a laminated blade, as they have images and diagrams of them all over the place on their OWN ADS.
I do agree that, if they send you a replacement blade, and if it is a properly laminated blade, then yes, it does make things better, but that usually comes at the customer's expense, either from shipping or due to more waiting.
I personally think that you should get what you were promised on the first go, with no strings attached, and anything else, while not a deal breaker, is something that should be heavily considered when selecting a blade to buy.
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Post by Kiyoshi on Sept 4, 2015 14:23:35 GMT
While its true that resolving the issue may be a good thing, there's also the fact that they should have gotten it right the first time - any sword maker/seller worth their salt should know of the difference between a folded and a laminated blade, as they have images and diagrams of them all over the place on their OWN ADS. I do agree that, if they send you a replacement blade, and if it is a properly laminated blade, then yes, it does make things better, but that usually comes at the customer's expense, either from shipping or due to more waiting. I personally think that you should get what you were promised on the first go, with no strings attached, and anything else, while not a deal breaker, is something that should be heavily considered when selecting a blade to buy. I couldn't agree more. Forges who make a habit of sending false products are doing it on purpose or incompetent. I don't see the same mistake happening so many times so consistently. If they send correct blades, that rules out incompetence leaving only dishonesty. It wouldn't surprise me though, send a cheaply made sword to people who don't know any better. The customer thinks they're getting a steal and the forge actually does, faux-win / win right? That kind of thinking leaves a bad taste in my mouth though...
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Post by nihontocaster on Sept 4, 2015 14:41:57 GMT
Pretty dumb to try that even after somebody asked for Hishigami wrapping imho. I mean, who knows that, usually knows how to spot a faux blade too. Guess some just have to try...
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addertooth
Member
Working the tsuka on two bare blades from Ninja-Katana, slow progress
Posts: 458
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Post by addertooth on Sept 4, 2015 15:14:52 GMT
I would normally agree. A customer who knows to ask (and pay for) hishigami is not your typical tree and beer can hacking customer. It is also worth noting the three worst blades received so far, were without the hishigami specification.
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Post by Krelian on Sept 4, 2015 16:20:15 GMT
I remember a long while back a forum member who actually works first-hand with Chinese forges (might've been Ricky, or Chris, or someone else) said that if they think they can get-one-over on the customer on any specification they will try. Every. Single. Time. Unfortunately that's just how they operate...
Personally, I think if you get exactly what you order from one of these eBay "forges" it's not evidence of their honesty, they just decided they couldn't get-one-over on you.
Slowly but surely they'll learn what "tells" to look for in competent versus incompetent customers. Requests for hishigami might end up being one of those. However... if you ask for hishigami you can tell right away if you got it or not once the sword is in-hand. The majority of the sword-buying public out there doesn't really know what to look for or how to see or prove if they received a laminated blade or not.
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Post by nihontocaster on Sept 4, 2015 16:27:28 GMT
addertoothOuch, now that is just a major turnoff. Just like some dealers in the past who tried to get away with faux horn on the saya (not sure how that even made economical sense). Just random, some European based sellers/brands aren't any better. Asked why half of a dealer/brands swords were missing alternating wrap. 1st reply was pretty much"huh?". 2nd mostly "our customers prefer it this way!" (their customers prefer it historically and functionally wrong? Okay...Not to mention it looks silly). Glad the Gyaku Kobuse worked out true Shame the Lyueswords Sanmai didn't worked out consistent, would have loved to order one from them.
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addertooth
Member
Working the tsuka on two bare blades from Ninja-Katana, slow progress
Posts: 458
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Post by addertooth on Sept 5, 2015 0:14:20 GMT
I have a certain fondness for Lyueswords, they have some of the nicer tsukamaki work. I bent over backwards to be fair with Lyueswords. When the first sword arrived without Bohi, I let them know it, but did not demand another blade. When the second blade was ordered their prices were messed up (too low), so I volunteered (without being asked) to send them additional cash (and did). Shame the integrity and good will was one-way only. The second blade arrived with really bad geometry and maru Damascus. Due to the weird blade shape it makes some of the sexiest tachikaze I have ever heard, so I decided to keep it. The second blade is also my polishing practice mule.
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Post by MessengerofDarkness on Sept 5, 2015 2:20:45 GMT
I have a certain fondness for Lyueswords, they have some of the nicer tsukamaki work. I bent over backwards to be fair with Lyueswords. When the first sword arrived without Bohi, I let them know it, but did not demand another blade. When the second blade was ordered their prices were messed up (too low), so I volunteered (without being asked) to send them additional cash (and did). Shame the integrity and good will was one-way only. The second blade arrived with really bad geometry and maru Damascus. Due to the weird blade shape it makes some of the sexiest tachikaze I have ever heard, so I decided to keep it. The second blade is also my polishing practice mule. Now you've intrigued me... I wouldn't mind seeing some pics of the "sexy tachikaze" generator with the funky sori going on. (I've also heard tell that Lyueswords were just Ryan Swords under a different name, can anyone confirm or rebuke this? I'd like to know for contextual purposes.)
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addertooth
Member
Working the tsuka on two bare blades from Ninja-Katana, slow progress
Posts: 458
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Post by addertooth on Sept 5, 2015 4:28:17 GMT
The sori is typical. The odd geometry is the dramatic shift in the niku mid-blade, where it goes completely flat and very thin. Because of the thinness of the last half of the blade it is very quick and agile. It would make a dandy trick cutter for soft to medium targets. The tsukamaki has a different vibe to the Lyueswords than the Ryanswords (perhaps could just be the persons who did the tsukamaki work), but minor tells like that tend to make me believe they were not from the same source (other than all the common elements which are shared among Longquan swords).
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Post by greatsaiyaman on Sept 5, 2015 5:37:54 GMT
addertoothOuch, now that is just a major turnoff. Just like some dealers in the past who tried to get away with faux horn on the saya (not sure how that even made economical sense). Just random, some European based sellers/brands aren't any better. Asked why half of a dealer/brands swords were missing alternating wrap. 1st reply was pretty much"huh?". 2nd mostly "our customers prefer it this way!" (their customers prefer it historically and functionally wrong? Okay...Not to mention it looks silly). Glad the Gyaku Kobuse worked out true Shame the Lyueswords Sanmai didn't worked out consistent, would have loved to order one from them. . I'd steer clear of lyuesword/tommylee-sword as I have bought a few katanas from them and was basically shafted just like everyone else . First time I paid nearly 800usd for a shihozume lamination and got a mono folded steel billet sword. The fittings, rayskin, ito etc were all standard of a cheap sword. The second sword I bought, I had requested a genuine yokote and was promised one yet after recieving it, it was a fake cosmetic yokote with very rough counter polish that looked pretty ugly. Even after explaining it to the vendor they claimed it was genuine when it clearly wasnt lol! Here's a pic of how the kissaki turned out, ouch.. Attachments:
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Post by greatsaiyaman on Sept 5, 2015 5:43:13 GMT
They also applied the cheaper bohi termination which i wasn't to happy about. I made this order as an L6 DH blade and I can vouch that it is simply by the colour of the steel, the amount of flexibility in the blade and the fact that if you even breath on it the thing will show rust spots straight away lol. It's not a bad blade but the finer details were unfortunatly poorly executed.
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addertooth
Member
Working the tsuka on two bare blades from Ninja-Katana, slow progress
Posts: 458
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Post by addertooth on Sept 5, 2015 15:48:08 GMT
greatsaiyaman, I was fully prepared to have Lyueswords to be my go-to seller after the first sword. It arrived with full-wrap rayskin, nice wrapping with hishigami and a geometric yokote. The second sword was a panel rayskin, it did have the hishigami I paid for, but a gorked up geometry of the blade itself, however it did have a geometric yokote. Lets just say they have lost their go-to status. That crown has been moved to Hanbon (under its various names).
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Post by nihontocaster on Sept 6, 2015 1:44:32 GMT
Thanks you both for the "warning" with Lyueswords, skipping them then. Go to dealer for me so far is Huawei mostly, no laminations but good general quality, geometry etc. Curious how the Hanbon Kobuse will be in the complete review, tsuka quality and all
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Post by greatsaiyaman on Sept 6, 2015 2:41:07 GMT
greatsaiyaman, I was fully prepared to have Lyueswords to be my go-to seller after the first sword. It arrived with full-wrap rayskin, nice wrapping with hishigami and a geometric yokote. The second sword was a panel rayskin, it did have the hishigami I paid for, but a gorked up geometry of the blade itself, however it did have a geometric yokote. Lets just say they have lost their go-to status. That crown has been moved to Hanbon (under its various names). Aww man, why do you get a geometric yokote and I don't lol. I agree with you that they might be a different vendor from Ryan-sword judging by the appearance of there swords maybe. I asked if they are connected to each other because after reading all the negative reviews of them I really didn't want to go there and they told me they are not. What was interesting though is that I got a 2 page note showing apparent handforging techniques with both my swords from them with 'Ryan-sword' headlined on them..
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Post by MessengerofDarkness on Sept 6, 2015 3:01:04 GMT
greatsaiyaman, I was fully prepared to have Lyueswords to be my go-to seller after the first sword. It arrived with full-wrap rayskin, nice wrapping with hishigami and a geometric yokote. The second sword was a panel rayskin, it did have the hishigami I paid for, but a gorked up geometry of the blade itself, however it did have a geometric yokote. Lets just say they have lost their go-to status. That crown has been moved to Hanbon (under its various names). Aww man, why do you get a geometric yokote and I don't lol. I agree with you that they might be a different vendor from Ryan-sword judging by the appearance of there swords maybe. I asked if they are connected to each other because after reading all the negative reviews of them I really didn't want to go there and they told me they are not. What was interesting though is that I got a 2 page note showing apparent handforging techniques with both my swords from them with 'Ryan-sword' headlined on them.. I smell a rat, and his name is Gong...
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addertooth
Member
Working the tsuka on two bare blades from Ninja-Katana, slow progress
Posts: 458
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Post by addertooth on Sept 6, 2015 13:19:27 GMT
Thanks you both for the "warning" with Lyueswords, skipping them then. Go to dealer for me so far is Huawei mostly, no laminations but good general quality, geometry etc. Curious how the Hanbon Kobuse will be in the complete review, tsuka quality and all There will definitely be a review written on Swordsmith668/Hanbon. Keep in mind there is also a Swordmaker688 on Ebay, don't get them confused. Reviews which will be soon are: Swordsmith668/Hanbon (good), Kaze99 (beyond brutal), Lyueswords (mid-painful). Reviews which I will have to wait on the replacement blades are: Ninja-Katana and Ryanswords. Ninja-Katana has at least sent photos of the completed (sanmai) replacement Katana and Wakizashi. No tracking number as of yet. Ryan promised to have the (shihozume) blade completed on the 28th of August, but no pictures or tracking number yet. The low price-point reference may (as a comparison point) mention the Hanwei Raptor.
It is worth noting if Lyueswords review was solely based upon the first sword they sent, it would be much more favorable, but part of the measure of a seller is his ability to consistently produce a sword of the same quality. The second Lyuesword was ordered specifically to determine if the first sword was a fluke, or typical quality.
For the Yokote-philes out there, the Kaze99 and Ninja-katana blades arrived with cosmetic a yokote. The rest of the blades arrived with geometric yokote of varying quality.
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addertooth
Member
Working the tsuka on two bare blades from Ninja-Katana, slow progress
Posts: 458
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Post by addertooth on Sept 6, 2015 13:26:20 GMT
Super fast update: Moments after my last posting, a tracking number was sent by Ninja-Katana. It currently does not show up in the tracking system for EMS, but it typically takes a day or so to show up on a new number.
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