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Post by Iradei on Aug 1, 2014 11:17:35 GMT
Hello, I'm not particularly familiar with Roman Gladius and having gazed upon the ones that the Albion Company sells, there was something that rather surprised me, namely, the shape of the tip of their Trajan. www.albion-europe.com/ImageRoot/ ... int768.jpg Since I'm planning to purchase it, I would like to know whether this was a common feature on Gladius back then . Thanks for your answers |
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Post by Bryan Heff on Aug 1, 2014 12:08:39 GMT
That is an interesting picture...it certainly makes the tip look like a seriously reinforced diamond cross section at the tip. Gladius were thrust first weapons, so that kind of tip would make sense...but I don't know. Sorry, can't actually answer your question though...
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Post by Iradei on Aug 1, 2014 14:30:45 GMT
Indeed. Then again, I guess a tip like this one would be prone to getting stuck in leather protections or even chain mail.
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Post by chrisperoni on Aug 1, 2014 15:06:20 GMT
If Albion is doing it you can pretty much guarantee it is historically accurate. It's based on the guttman gladius, as noted in the article on the sword.
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Post by Iradei on Aug 1, 2014 15:49:03 GMT
I obviously woundn't venture to call into question the historical accuracy that Albion provides. Be that as it may, I'd like to know if this sort of tip was something common on Gladius during the Roman period inasmuch as the ones that I've seen thus far on the market all have quite "normal-looking" tips. Below is what I call a "normal-looking" tip (Albion Aquilifer Gladius) : www.kultofathena.com/images/ANR1_5_l.jpg |
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Post by chrisperoni on Aug 1, 2014 18:32:20 GMT
I think it's hard to say for sure what was common so far back in history. It's usually more a case of either being able to show if something existed or not vs.how common it was. That said, the fact historical examples of a certain type or with a certain feature exist, could be a good argument to suggest it was common enough to have an example survive over such a long period of time so as to be here now.
I'd bet the guys at my armoury might know more since they focus more on history, or maybe look up a roman reenactors forum?
Edit.add
Counter to the thought above I the thinking that surviving examples of swords might often be those that were better cared for and preserved due to being unique or expensive or the like.
... Rat. That's the one I was thinking of. Roman army talk forum
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Post by Dave Kelly on Aug 1, 2014 19:01:05 GMT
The "point" is, that the Pompeii as one of the last designs developed for the legions had, according to excavated examples a uniquely ballistic point. This Trajan is one of the new batch of rethought Gladii recently come into production. I'm not so well schooled on the archaelogy of roman empire production as to say that all production centers were making these models with the same refined point, but the concensus for now seems to be saying yes.
By the mid to late 3d century the empire was abandoning the classic Gladii in favor of universal adoption of Spatha length blades 27-30 inches.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Aug 1, 2014 22:15:19 GMT
It's hard to say how common tips like this were, because books showing a whole bunch of gladii often don't give enough detail of the blade profile. Drawings and photos often only show the profile, blades are often corroded. This type of reinforced tip was very common on Roman military daggers long before the Pompeii gladius was adopted, and after as well. The difference is that on the daggers, the reinforcing rib typically runs the full length of the blade, rather than just being at the tip as on the Guttmann gladius. Some photos of the Guttmann gladius: www.royalarmouries.org/early-war ... object/193 www.christies.com/lotfinder/lot/ ... tails.aspx www.romancoins.info/MilitaryEqui ... ttack.html (about 2/3 of the way down) |
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Post by MOK on Aug 3, 2014 15:21:12 GMT
I've seen lots of reinforced tips similar to this on historical gladii of several types. They're not all identical, obviously, there's a lot of variation in the details: some are consideraby more angular in profile, many have the thickest portion a little further back from the point, etc. But they do seem fairly common, based on my very limited research, especially on later types of gladii like this one.
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Post by Iradei on Aug 3, 2014 20:11:21 GMT
Now that's what I'm talking about. Thank you all for your answers.
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SanMarc
Senior Forumite
Posts: 3,193
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Post by SanMarc on Aug 3, 2014 20:24:25 GMT
That tip will work well penetrating Mail and Leather Armored Enemy...
...SanMarc.
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Luka
Senior Forumite
Posts: 2,848
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Post by Luka on Aug 5, 2014 10:38:21 GMT
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