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Post by frankthebunny on Feb 17, 2014 4:56:53 GMT
There are thousands of swords being used everyday and for many years that are fitted with cast tsuba that didn't crack. It totally depends on what material was used and the quality of the casting. Is it just me or does there seem to be an awful lot of sword snobbishness flooding in these days? Is this an overflow from SFI?
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Post by OttoVonFaart on Feb 17, 2014 5:23:15 GMT
According to Roman Urban, the term tosogu comes from a Japanese word designating all decorative functional parts in general (tsuba, fuchi, kashira, menuki etc.)
There is certainly a contrast between the work of Hallam, Hastings & Urban and the numerous Chinese reproduction tsuba manufacturers. I was pointing out, though I don't think it needs to be said, that even master craftsmen such as Ford Hallam have made & continue to make "soft metal" tsuba.
Do you know what the word pedant means?
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Feb 17, 2014 5:57:33 GMT
This pic is just to lighten the mood. I don't know, maybe it's that time of the year, as I've been feeling awfully snobbish too lately. I've noticed couple times it's better that I don't post what I intended to post...
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Post by Lee Bray on Feb 17, 2014 8:22:48 GMT
Tosugu is what they make, not what they are.
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Post by OttoVonFaart on Feb 17, 2014 9:10:03 GMT
Do you know what the word pedant means?
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Post by Lee Bray on Feb 17, 2014 9:56:15 GMT
If accuracy is pedantic, then so be it. Carry on as you see fit, I'm done.
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Post by VicoSprite on Feb 20, 2014 7:59:00 GMT
Well I appreciate the definition of terms, I am always up for learning. This subject has become one of my latest fixations, and while I have hit "watch" on ebay tsuba, I have yet to pull the trigger because the more and more I read and learn, the more I was seeing a situation like this happen. I am nearly to the point where I think I can tell legit from reproduction, I think anyways, lol. While I have quite a few nice tsuba coming my way in the short future, from great craftsman (imho), none of them are antique, mostly because right now I would rather know with 100% certainty that I am getting what I am paying for. Although, if the right 'nami' or 'kuruma' motif "antique" tsuba came along, for an appealing price, I could see myself in the buy first research later noob buyer situation. Just being honest with myself. Cheers, Cody
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Post by stone8 on Oct 23, 2018 11:21:24 GMT
One noob that bought first and researched later, resurrecting (maybe?) a dead thread... I happen to have bought a tsuba on Ebay, reported as middle-Edo period, with what I thought was a nice patina over a pine tree motif... now that I got the piece, however, I have my doubts as to the accuracy of the claim. It is a copper tsuba, as shows in several areas near the center, where the patina has been worn off in a few places (probably by the seppa?), but it seems quite durable, so no boot black, I think.
How can I find out if this is an original antique tsuba or a fake? Thanks!
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Post by laionidas on Oct 27, 2018 14:56:57 GMT
One noob that bought first and researched later, resurrecting (maybe?) a dead thread... I happen to have bought a tsuba on Ebay, reported as middle-Edo period, with what I thought was a nice patina over a pine tree motif... now that I got the piece, however, I have my doubts as to the accuracy of the claim. It is a copper tsuba, as shows in several areas near the center, where the patina has been worn off in a few places (probably by the seppa?), but it seems quite durable, so no boot black, I think. How can I find out if this is an original antique tsuba or a fake? Thanks! I recently acquired a modified Taisho era iaito (fun genuine Japanese training blade, no significant value for Nihonto collectors). Below are pictures of the alloy tsuba, before and after cleaning. As you can see, the natural patina on an alloy tsuba can easily make it pass for steel or iron. Copper or alloy tsuba are historical, but to my knowledge mostly either on lower grade swords or on late sengoku wartime products. Do you have pictures of your Ebay tsuba?
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Post by stone8 on Oct 27, 2018 20:32:39 GMT
Well, there is a dark patina over it, but it definitely looks like copper. I am also worried about the correct maintenance, because it has developed a greenish mould since I received it, and I don’t want to rub off all the patina in the process of cleaning it.
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Post by laionidas on Oct 28, 2018 18:02:46 GMT
Well, there is a dark patina over it, but it definitely looks like copper. I am also worried about the correct maintenance, because it has developed a greenish mould since I received it, and I don’t want to rub off all the patina in the process of cleaning it. I am sorry, but that looks wholly fake to me. The material it's made of, is the least of your worries. The edges are too soft, the 'patina' looks chemically induced, the kozuka hole looks off (I don't know, too eliptical I guess; you couldn't fit an actual kozuka in there), but most of all, the centre hole, where the tang is supposed to go, looks pristine. There's no signs of any adjustment, which even the cheap modern production tsuba tend to have. Quite clearly it was never mounted on an actual sword. Finally, it's again too rounded, an actual blade, if one did try to mount the tsuba, either would not fit, or fit only with too much slack. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am. How much did you pay, if we may ask?
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Post by stone8 on Oct 29, 2018 11:29:46 GMT
Well, there is a dark patina over it, but it definitely looks like copper. I am also worried about the correct maintenance, because it has developed a greenish mould since I received it, and I don’t want to rub off all the patina in the process of cleaning it. I am sorry, but that looks wholly fake to me. The material it's made of, is the least of your worries. The edges are too soft, the 'patina' looks chemically induced, the kozuka hole looks off (I don't know, too eliptical I guess; you couldn't fit an actual kozuka in there), but most of all, the centre hole, where the tang is supposed to go, looks pristine. There's no signs of any adjustment, which even the cheap modern production tsuba tend to have. Quite clearly it was never mounted on an actual sword. Finally, it's again too rounded, an actual blade, if one did try to mount the tsuba, either would not fit, or fit only with too much slack. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am. How much did you pay, if we may ask? Not much, thankfully... not enough to even consider shipping it back to Japan for a refund on my expense. About the patina, I’m sure it was painted over with some substance because I can see it covering the file marks on the edges, as well as some discoloration after wiping it softly with oil to take off some greenish mould buildup. The issue of the center is something that caught my eye... not a traditional shape, and no rust on the inner side. Then again, it does fit without wobbling when mounted on a sword, which is unexpected. As I purchased it from a Japan seller, there are a few possibilities: that someone sold this particular art dealer a collection of antiques, and this was cast into the bargain... or maybe someone who fakes original antique tsubas sold it to him as an Edo piece, I don’t know. The seller is honest with his business, I think... but he may have been fooled by someone who was above suspicion. Anyway, I’ll keep it as a reminder so I’ll be more careful next time. Thanks!!
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Post by laionidas on Nov 3, 2018 19:26:06 GMT
I am sorry, but that looks wholly fake to me. The material it's made of, is the least of your worries. The edges are too soft, the 'patina' looks chemically induced, the kozuka hole looks off (I don't know, too eliptical I guess; you couldn't fit an actual kozuka in there), but most of all, the centre hole, where the tang is supposed to go, looks pristine. There's no signs of any adjustment, which even the cheap modern production tsuba tend to have. Quite clearly it was never mounted on an actual sword. Finally, it's again too rounded, an actual blade, if one did try to mount the tsuba, either would not fit, or fit only with too much slack. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am. How much did you pay, if we may ask? Then again, it does fit without wobbling when mounted on a sword, which is unexpected. That's coincidental at best. No two nakago (tangs) are the same, so real antique tsuba would rarely fit a random blade perfectly. That's why you see adjustment marks, both on modern production tsuba and anqtiques. Antiques can have soft metal inserts to make them fit more snugly. I appreciate how you'd like to grant the seller the benefit of doubt, but I in turn doubt whether that's waranted. No Japanese antique dealer with a dedicated eBay shop would let something slip, which I am able to distinguish from a simple picture. My personal experiences in Japan have always been 100% positive, and above expectations, but I do recognise that even in Japan there are scammers that specifically target tourists/foreign enthousiasts. I guess on a big, largely anonymous, online market, you're a bit more likely to encounter them.
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