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Post by JediMa on Feb 5, 2014 21:51:05 GMT
Hello, I bought on ebay an original TSUBA of Edo time (1800) there is few rust on it, how should I preserve it? Just leave the rust like it is and add oil, or what? I'm totally clueless about this, so any good advice is really welcome.
thank you
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Post by american samurai on Feb 6, 2014 1:06:37 GMT
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Post by chrisperoni on Feb 6, 2014 8:49:18 GMT
If it's a real antique DO NOT TOUCH IT. You can seriously devalue an antique just by "cleaning" it. That being said, if you study up and do research, you can perform some simple restoration care, such as described in the link above, but I would not just take one quick blurb and act on it.
It would be a good idea to give us more details on the tsuba so we can better determine where to begin studying how to care for it. Can you provide the link to the ebay sale? I will say that virtually 99.9% of all the supposed antiques on ebay are in fact fakes.
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Post by american samurai on Feb 6, 2014 9:34:28 GMT
I should have mentioned that the link I posted was for dealing with red rust, which needs to be stopped and not for any other reason.
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Post by JediMa on Feb 6, 2014 19:24:55 GMT
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Marc
Member
Senior Forumite
Posts: 3,229
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Post by Marc on Feb 7, 2014 8:05:43 GMT
To my knowledge, there is no easy way to remove active rust without domaging the patina. Most usual technique imply rubbing the active rust with something relatively soft, for exemple a piece of dry bamboo or ivory.
If you do so, be very gentle, since the last thing you want is to remove the dark patina. The process is time consuming, so I usually do it watching tv.
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Post by american samurai on Feb 7, 2014 9:16:16 GMT
As you say...there is no easy way but there is a way. Before. After.
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Post by JediMa on Feb 8, 2014 19:03:55 GMT
I think I can try to use some bamboo to just remove the red new rust saving the important patina, the only thing I didnt get it's how to do it, I mean with what part of bamboo and how, cause I'm a bit new in these kind of matters This said I would like to know if it's possibile to find out if it's really ancient as it's said on Ebay. thank you guys
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Post by OttoVonFaart on Feb 8, 2014 21:30:47 GMT
Maybe you could post some photos of your tsuba?
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Feb 8, 2014 22:11:32 GMT
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Post by OttoVonFaart on Feb 9, 2014 6:58:30 GMT
Looking closely at the full size image... it's a casting, not carved. The patina, such as it is looks to be from leaving it out in the back yard for a few months. And the nakago ana isn't tapered, leading one to believe that this was never designed to be used on either a katana or a wakizashi. It may well be Japanese, but I don't think it's Edo period. More likely a modern, cast repro that's been rusted to give the appearance of being antique. Right Click and select View Image to see entire imageThere are good reproductions around that are certainly worthy of consideration. But if you want a real Edo period tsuba, I recommend you check out Grey Doffin's store (online or brick & mortar in Duluth, Minnesota.) He has some legit Edo tsuba starting at about $175. As for how to remove active rust, check out the Nihonto Message Board. A resource for serious collectors and others who just want to learn about nihonto.
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Post by Lee Bray on Feb 9, 2014 9:39:35 GMT
Otto is right. This is not an antique and could barely be called a tsuba. The casting seams are highly evident and the ana is the wrong shape. Bad luck.
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Post by chrisperoni on Feb 9, 2014 12:24:55 GMT
Ah well, not the most expensive lesson I've seen before. At least you have now started communicating in the forum- this will help you greatly from overspending again.
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Post by JediMa on Feb 10, 2014 1:52:25 GMT
Well thank you guys at least i've learnt somethingI didnt know. I will take a look at that link to check the tsuba they sell. :mrgreen:
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Post by OttoVonFaart on Feb 10, 2014 4:54:29 GMT
There's a recent thread in the Nihonto Message Board regarding exactly this situation, that is: New guys buying something on eBay first and doing the research afterward. A fellow on the NMB proposed writing an article or sticky post about how to spot fakes & eBay fraudsters. Others went on to explain that it wouldn't do much good for a couple of reasons. First off, the aforementioned "purchase first, research after" syndrome which so many noobs fall into. And the second that there are literally hundreds of fake tsuba (non-nihonto, good to fair to poor Chinese & other origin repros) of varying quality offered on eBay at any given time. In another NMB thread a guy asked about a "tsuba" with a similar, rectangular nakago ana as the one the OP purchased. One guy suggested it might be something to be used on some sort of pole arm ~ but no one had ever seen one like it before. My thought is that it may be something that was made for a Chinese or Korean sword being sold as a Japanese tsuba. Fortunately the OP didn't get stung too bad ~ though €65 would buy a decent bottle of good single malt scotch whisky. I browse the eBay stuff almost daily and it seems even some Japanese vendors are trying to pass off junk tsuba as rare antiques. I much prefer guys who sell good reproduction tsuba that are labeled as such. For the real deal, I go to NBTHK sanctioned token kai sword show events & spend a lot of time talking with experts. Then I talk to Grey Doffin, who is always at these things with a bunch of goodies to trade and/or sell. There are lots of good, nihonto tsuba available at reasonable prices, but eBay isn't a reliable place to find them unless you are an expert. We have at least 2 SBG Forum members who sell very nice repro tsuba through their shops. Check out Dave's stuff at The Samurai Sword Shop and Jeffrey's offerings at The Samurai Workshop.
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Post by JediMa on Feb 16, 2014 9:49:34 GMT
Thanks to Paypal I will get back my money as I will send the supposed tsuba back! thank you very much to you all
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Post by frankthebunny on Feb 16, 2014 12:23:36 GMT
That's great news! Good for you man
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Post by Lee Bray on Feb 16, 2014 12:31:57 GMT
Good news. Here's a pic to show why you don't want cast tsuba. Attachments:
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Post by OttoVonFaart on Feb 16, 2014 18:14:17 GMT
I have seen any number of really decent & useful cast tsuba made from bronze or various types of brass. Both of these metals can be very tough as long as the copper content of the alloy is about 60% or more. Different brass or bronze alloys can have varying amounts of zinc, tin, lead, aluminum, silicon and/or manganese. Brass is primarily an alloy of copper & zinc while bronze is primarily an alloy of copper & tin.
Decently made brass Chinese reproduction tsuba can be given a black patina using dilute liver of sulfur or copper electroplated first and then given a black patina or any other finish appropriate to a pure copper tsuba, like rokushō.
Keep in mind that any copper alloy tsuba (brass or bronze) will weigh about 1/3 more than an identical iron or steel tsuba. Several modern tosogu such as Ford Hallam, Patrick Hastings and Roman Urban craft tsuba of so-called soft metals (copper alloys).
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Post by Lee Bray on Feb 17, 2014 0:34:55 GMT
My apologies for the picture. I'm sure that Ford, Patrick and Roman would love to be classed in the same league as 'decent, Chinese reproductions.' It's tsubako, not tosugu.
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