|
Post by justin520 on Jan 10, 2014 7:46:00 GMT
www.sikhstuff.com/category.php?id_category=9I found these guys, what do you think? Nothing seems to exceed $400 and most stuff has definite folding. Yall think it's reliable? Also any other good sources for Indian reproduction swords? No antiques and no cold steel please.
|
|
|
Post by randomnobody on Jan 10, 2014 8:08:37 GMT
I looked at these guys a few times a while back, not really sure what I think of them, though. They remind me of ancientarms.biz but with a few other things. I don't know if I'd go with any of their "damascus" stuff but some of their pesh kabz look nice. I've been tempted by this one in particular: www.sikhstuff.com/product.php?id_product=196
|
|
|
Post by justin520 on Jan 10, 2014 8:10:36 GMT
www.sikhstuff.com/product.php?id_product=48I really want this puppy, it looks positively beautiful. It's definitely folded. Damascus is just the new word for that nowadays, but it seems like a good work horse. Edit: Still alternative resources for swords like Sikhs used would be much appreciated, and met with karma to boot!
|
|
|
Post by Timo Nieminen on Jan 10, 2014 8:15:38 GMT
Windlass has a few (and Deepeeka), though not AFAIK much in the way of classic Indian swords - more daggers/knives, though the larger ones might be called swords. Ancient Arms has a respectable range, www.ancientarms.biz though I can't comment on the quality. One also sees plenty of repro Indian swords at flea markets and the like (and on ebay etc), but they're often dreadful wallhangers (first of all, a welded-on thin rod tang, the worst rat-tail tang you will ever see, and second, often softish steels). Maybe OK as a $10 sword. One problem, IMO, is that the market for mid-range Indian repros is depressed by the low prices Indian antiques are available for. On a good day, you can get an antique tulwar (probably rather shabby) for under $100. There is a market for functional martial arts weapons - search for swords for gatka and shasta vidiya. But from what I've seen, I'ts small compared to the functional Japanese/Chinese/European sword market.
|
|
|
Post by randomnobody on Jan 10, 2014 8:27:42 GMT
Indian and neighboring region swords and such are definitely very niche, which is a shame as in my opinion they have probably the greatest (that's quantity) variety in form, and most are just immaculately decorated. I drool over this sort of thing, for instance: armsandantiques.com/exceptional- ... uche-is709 armsandantiques.com/gorgeous-18t ... tion-id704 What I've seen of modern repros, though, is very much lacking. Even (especially?) the stuff actually made in India. Same as with Chinese companies, you'd think they'd get their own stuff right...but sadly, it's seldom the case. If only somebody out in Hollywood would make a good movie set in India or old Persia or such with proper, historically accurate weapons and techniques, then maybe they'd take off and we'd see better pickings in the production circuit. Of course, the downside there would be crazy inflation on antique pieces...
|
|
|
Post by Timo Nieminen on Jan 10, 2014 8:41:28 GMT
What seems a little odd in comparison is that there is a big market in modern kukri/khukuri. Again, it's possible to find cheap antiques, but the modern production market looks strong, often being able to sell for more than antiques. (With the exception of the desirable military kukri.)
What's different about Indian stuff?
|
|
|
Post by justin520 on Jan 10, 2014 8:45:37 GMT
Idk, I feel like Indian/Sikh stuff is so cool. If there was a good production market for it I'd be broke lol.
I still wanna know if that Sikh stuff website is good.
|
|
|
Post by randomnobody on Jan 10, 2014 8:54:41 GMT
Kukris have the Gurkha legends going for them. Not so much talwars, etc.
Everybody wants to be a fearless Gurkha badass (or Nepalese farmer, apparently) but nobody really knows what a talwar is. It's a shame, really. All it would take would be a good remake of, say, "Lawrence of Arabia" with proper weapons and I'd almost put money on the market exploding.
Which reminds me, there was a very nice manga (Japanese serial comic) I was reading a while back, called "Otoyomegatari" which was based in 18-something Iran-ish; it was never really specified. "Central Asia" is in the synopsis, but whatever that means.
They had a nice spread once with an assortment of yatagan, talwar, and other swords and weapons in one of the chapters. I can't remember which chapter and, honestly, can't be bothered to go looking through them all right now.
I think all it would take would be one good, proper film to really kickstart Indian sword fever. Gatka and the ilk have had a pretty good run in some places, as has Nidir Singh's Shastar Vidya, but it's really not spread a lot.
|
|
|
Post by justin520 on Jan 10, 2014 9:17:33 GMT
Also are Indian scabbards pure leather minus the chapes?
|
|
|
Post by randomnobody on Jan 10, 2014 9:36:15 GMT
If you're asking whether they have wooden cores, I'm sure they must. I've also seen a few that were "all steel" though I'd wager they still had wood or fabric liners. Even in the old days leaving steel in direct contact with leather was a pretty bad idea, so there was bound to be something in there. I've also seen a number covered in fabrics, velvet seems popular. akaalarms.com/portfolio/rock-cry ... cus-blade/ akaalarms.com/portfolio/a-rare-a ... gate-hilt/ akaalarms.com/portfolio/indian-r ... criptions/
|
|
|
Post by Timo Nieminen on Jan 10, 2014 9:37:43 GMT
Most common scabbards in my experience are wood covered with cloth. Especially for repros. I also see a lot of wood covered with thin leather, especially for antiques. Wood + cloth might still be more common for antiques; I haven't counted.
|
|
|
Post by justin520 on Jan 10, 2014 9:42:09 GMT
Is there any inner scabbard linings or no? It seems like you've handled antiques so you would know. Cause if all else fails I can go custom.
|
|
|
Post by randomnobody on Jan 10, 2014 9:44:07 GMT
From what little I've seen, I'd give cloth a very slight edge over leather. Hard to say how many I've seen are original to the blade, though, so that might edge cloth over a bit more, considering a lot of the leather I've seen looks quite new compared to the blade it holds.
I'll let Timo answer for his own experience, but the two Afghan (I imagine construction would be similar, if not the same, across Central Asia) blades I own, at least, have wood cores wrapped in leather (goat, perhaps?) with metal chapes and throats, and on one a few bands of what I'd guess to be brass along the length. The patina one one is very weird, and tough to place with my lack of knowledge.
|
|
|
Post by Timo Nieminen on Jan 10, 2014 10:28:22 GMT
I don't remember seeing any linings (other than the wooden core).
For Afghan and other Central Asian scabbards, leather wrap over the wooden core seems to be more common, compared to cloth. Sometimes scabbards are all wood, with no wrap over the core. I've seen such bare wood scabbards mostly for Himalayan weapons (kukri and Bhutanese knives and swords). Some Bhutanese swords have a scabbard open on one side, with some metal straps keeping the blade in place. For TIbetan swords, and some other Central Asian swords (e.g., one I saw that was supposed to be Uzbek, but I would have said Tibetan from the appearance), the metal throat and chape can be, together, over 2/3 the length of the scabbard. Completely metal covered scabbards are also seen.
|
|
|
Post by randomnobody on Jan 10, 2014 10:42:02 GMT
I'd forgotten about the Bhutanese swords, but have seen a good many scabbards as you describe. Can't remember where, though, I think a few Valiant Co models? Granted, those are modern production knives and such. If the lining question was about fabric or the like on the inside of the wood, then I've not seen any such thing either. If I was interpreted as saying that I had, I apologize. I think I missed the "inner" bit. :oops: Haven't seen a lot of plain wood scabbards from India and its neighbors, but I've seen a lot from Southeast Asia and parts of Africa. One of my favorites is the Moroccan/Algerian flyssa, but that's a good distance from where we're looking in this thread. I should be doing a lot more research and study on this stuff, but I'm in a big budget crunch and as such am trying to not tempt myself with anything for a while.
|
|
|
Post by justin520 on Jan 15, 2014 2:43:53 GMT
Tulwar blades were glued into the hilt with pitch, and Indian folks had a habbit of seeing another cultures sword and slapping a tulwar hilt on it. Maybe I could just get a hilt and put a blade on.
|
|
|
Post by Timo Nieminen on Jan 15, 2014 3:22:29 GMT
That works. Tulwar hilts can be had for $30-40. If you pick the right blade, it can even look Indian. Can even be repro-Indian. I semi-recommend the Universal Swords 1796LC blade.
The usual adhesive is a resin made with a mix of ingredients, not just pitch. Cutler's resin should work as a substitute for the Indian resin, if you want a traditional, easily removable adhesive. A modern epoxy works too, but isn't as removable. You can pin through the grip or guard as well (which is a traditional reinforcement).
|
|
|
Post by justin520 on Jan 15, 2014 3:53:12 GMT
Pin like they do with grip scales or peen it?
|
|
|
Post by randomnobody on Jan 15, 2014 4:08:01 GMT
Pin, like with scales. See also the pegs of Japanese and some Chinese swords, but as permanent "rivets" rather than removable pegs.
|
|
|
Post by Timo Nieminen on Jan 15, 2014 7:54:48 GMT
Only a minority of tulwars are pinned (more common on pulouars, but still a minority, I think). But it can be good for peace of mind for those who don't trust glue. A couple of examples of pinned pulouars (a tulwar will be pinned the same way): www.antiqueswordsonline.com/indo ... ting-sword www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=148296 which shows a side view (i.e., the sword is either front or back towards the camera) of the pin. Pins are often fairly flush with both sides; I don't how common it is for them to stick out this far. Those pins are through the centre of the guard, which is the most common position. Rarely, the pin is through the middle of the grip. Decorative washers are often used with pins, but not always.
|
|