|
Post by Onimusha on Sept 11, 2013 23:23:47 GMT
Hammer grip-you hold the saber like you're holding a hammer.
Handshake grip. You hold the saber like you're shaking someone's hand.
Saber grip- the grip in which you place your thumb on the back of the grip.
|
|
|
Post by Kilted Cossack on Sept 11, 2013 23:29:39 GMT
Onimusha:
Thanks, dude---I was just trying to figure out how to say what you said.
|
|
|
Post by Ulrich on Sept 11, 2013 23:58:14 GMT
Thanks for explanation. Yet I know what is meant. Hammer grip works very well, handshake grip with fully strutted fingers is impossible because the basket doesn't allow that. Saber grip is only possible by grappling this little hook. Edit: Saber hold is possible without grappling the hook, but it feels very uncomfortable and I wouldn't wield it in that way.
|
|
|
Post by Kilted Cossack on Sept 12, 2013 2:13:51 GMT
Details, details. Every sword needs a sheath, so they say, and I guess every saber needs a scabbard. The basic sword I've been talking about is a variant of a 19th century saber, and they generally came (in the West) with a steel scabbard. I'm no fan. I've read numerous references to sabers being dulled simply by being drawn from steel scabbards, and the superiority of Indian leather or wood scabbards, so you can sign me up in the leather, wood, or leather and wood category. A steel scabbard that's not fitted with a wood, horn or soft metal throat is like wearing pants that are tight in the crotch. You could do it, but why? Plus, you can go crazy on the indigenous scabbard, like this Wilkinson for Sarawak:
|
|
|
Post by Beowulf on Sept 12, 2013 4:11:53 GMT
"The basic sword I've been talking about is a variant of a 19th century saber, and they generally came (in the West) with a steel scabbard. I'm no fan. I've read numerous references to sabers being dulled simply by being drawn from steel scabbards, and the superiority of Indian leather or wood scabbards, so you can sign me up in the leather, wood, or leather and wood category. A steel scabbard that's not fitted with a wood, horn or soft metal throat is like wearing pants that are tight in the crotch. You could do it, but why?" BTW the metal scabbards could have been made to not do that. That's sloppy. But from what I understand stuff started to devolve during the end of the saber's active life. British Officers not knowing how to defend themselves too well with one, not sharpening them, etc. I got to looking at some Polish sabres. Went here and clicked on "POLISH SABRES (English Abstract)". Good stuff. www.kismeta.com/diGrasse/Zablocki.htmSo... I am sure a thumb-ring locks (haha) you into one sort of grip and by extension (haha) one sort of fencing. Thoughts on the thumb-ring? I am digging these Polish sabers, especially after seeing them in action. I think I'll try and find a good repro. This saber discussion is corrupting me... but I figure I can use older messer techniques as a base for fun, though HEMA-Saber people will scream at me. I suppose it's a form of payback for "Lichtenauering" people over the head for so long myself.
|
|
|
Post by Kilted Cossack on Sept 12, 2013 4:21:33 GMT
Everything I know about thumb rings is second hand---but here it is. "It works." Hey, these guys did this for a living, not a hobby. Interestingly, pretty late in the saber's life the "thumb ring" became a "finger loop" on some 19th century sabers. (Including CS's 1852 Prussian.) I think a traditional thumb ring might limit your fencing style, but honestly that's just guesswork.
Love the Zablocki extract---I've been there many a time.
Polish saber is a disease---there is no cure.
|
|
|
Post by Ulrich on Sept 12, 2013 4:36:10 GMT
-------------- I'd like to see and wield a saber that has a thumb ring AND a (index)finger loop
|
|
|
Post by Beowulf on Sept 12, 2013 5:02:41 GMT
It probably existed. Who knows if it was a whole sub-family or just something that popped up from time to time.
I sort of think about historical weapons like dinosaurs: we only know about what we have found that's right in front of us for examination.
I'm getting interested more and more from this thread (and others) about the beginnings of sabers. Specifically what was going on in the East, what the North European Messer/Falchion group turned into after the "cruciform hilt" age ended and also about the early East/West merging of weapons. I always found it interesting that the Eastern curved forms became popular in the West and North, but also it's worth considering that we (Western and Northern Europeans) had curved sword forms the whole time. It wasn't an innovation of a curved blade from the East, but everything else that came with those swords. New ways to use them? Just fashion? Or using the Eastern forms in traditional West/North ways?
Can I please have a few more lifetimes to study THESE things too? Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by Ulrich on Sept 12, 2013 6:05:53 GMT
--------------- Karl was mentioned to have a saber for his own purpose. It's said that it was a gift of an eastern tribe. Karl was crowned as a Caesar/imperator in 800 a.D. At 1000 a.D. Otto should have found the sword when he opened Karl's grave. Nowadays common belief is that this saber comes to Germany in 1075. The only thing that can be taken for sure is it's eastern origin. Looks a little bit like a shashka, doesn't it?
|
|
|
Post by Beowulf on Sept 12, 2013 6:51:31 GMT
I like Karl despite what he did to the Saxons (I have a lot of Saxon ancestry). Ja, this is definitely an eastern weapon. The sword hangers remind me of Scythian/Persian stuff. Just looking at that handle it is obviously from the east. The blade also looks eastern, even though we came up with some strange stuff too.
I think I am hijacking Kilted's thread. I'll stop now.
|
|
|
Post by Kilted Cossack on Sept 12, 2013 11:04:27 GMT
Don't be silly! These threads are conversations, not monologues, hopefully!
Karl's sword is one of those fascinating examples of cross-cultural pollination. (Like how in Spain you have paella, in Italy it's pilaf, in Ukraine and Russia it's plov, and in Afghanistan it's pilau, but it's always "rice and local spices and a local protein.")
|
|
|
Post by Beowulf on Sept 14, 2013 6:36:38 GMT
So I was doodling and did this. I know it's wrong. But it's a bit beyond me without finding examples of each feature. The blade now that I look it over is your hacking-blade example.
|
|
|
Post by Kilted Cossack on Sept 14, 2013 14:58:53 GMT
Hey, man, I LIKE IT! I don't think I've ever seen a "bar on each side" guard on a saber (except for a Radaelli, and that's a whole different kettle of kittens), but it looks good.
|
|
|
Post by Kilted Cossack on Sept 14, 2013 15:43:00 GMT
Anders had done up a draft of the Little Crowbar that I quite liked as well, although I'd probably go a different way on the guard. /post/479867/thread
|
|
|
Post by Kilted Cossack on Sept 15, 2013 0:45:42 GMT
I just ran across a quote from Dave Kelly, in Anders' review of a Chouhan Mameluke saber: "Sabers can be sub classed in most of their history in lights and heavies. Lights 2.25 down; heavies 2.4 to 3.25 lbs."
I am, apparently, looking for a light heavy saber!
|
|
|
Post by Freebooter on Sept 10, 2016 23:47:13 GMT
I love the US 1860 Lt Cavalry Sabre. I have owned several originals (why in hell did I ever get rid of them?). The originals are well balanced to me, just curved enough to be good cutters, and just straight enough to be good thrusters. For those of you wondering about a sabre being good for foot combat, watch the Cold Steel Martial Arts 2 disc DVD "Fighting with the Sabre and Cutlass". While Cold Steel's president did a little talk and demonstration or two, the main "Class" was taught by Anthony De'Longis and his partner Pason. Very well done and very interesting. I strongly suggest to ANYONE remotely interested in real cavalry sabre fighting to get it and watch it. And by the way, the sabres he and his partner were using through out this set were the French Napoleonic sabre. A beautiful saber, very much like the US Civil War Cav sabres.
|
|