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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2007 17:05:04 GMT
I just received a bayonet for Christmas. Supposedly it is an authentic WWI or WWII bayonet, from my father's old knife collection. I really want to know its exact specs and I was hoping someone here could tell me.
I can't upload a photo now but I can give a basic description
The blades 16 inches long, it is strait and single edged, but the tip is curved on both edges as though it were double edged. There is a 12 inch long blood groove.
The hilt has a 1.5 inch extension which ends in a loop (I don't know the name for that loop). the other end has a .5 inch extension.
The handle has two large rivets. It has a wooden grip with a diamond shaped grid.
On one side at the base of the blade are the numbers 37789. On the other is the word Artillery, with some other indistinguishable markings bellow.
I've tried googleing bayonets but I can't find any exact matches and I'm hoping there might be an expert here.
If this information is not enough I may be able to put up a picture later.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2007 18:06:15 GMT
I am happy to try to help, but I will need to see photos!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2007 21:30:31 GMT
Do you have a camara in a cellphone? That works too.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2007 5:23:59 GMT
I took several shots with my cell phone but I can't upload them to my computer right now.
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Post by hotspur on Dec 27, 2007 15:52:50 GMT
The 16" blade, 12" fuller and a serial number make me think it is likely an early U.S. M1905. I've never read of one marked ARTILLERY before but there were some variations and even naval use, which might account for that. Does it look a bit like the top one in this photo? Those are all later WWII MI Garand variants but here is a quite old one with it's wood grips, which were no longer used in the later ones. Serial number on this one is 55xxx These were originally designed for the M1903 rifle and adapted for use on the M1917 and M1 Garand rifles. The loop is the muzzle ring, which fits over the barrel. Of course, if your's doesn't look like these, it is not an M1905 ;D Cheers Hotspur; lots of info out there if it is an M1905
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2007 16:54:13 GMT
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Post by hotspur on Dec 27, 2007 18:50:52 GMT
Spanish Mauser bayonet. I have no idea if they were still in use in the thrities and forties but the pattern goes back to the 7mm 1895 Mausers. Here's a page. arms2armor.com/Bayonets/span1913.htmIt not looking like an M1905 made it something else ;D Cheers Hotspur; there are a lot of Mauser bayonet variations but this seems a good match for that one
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2007 2:51:45 GMT
That looks about right. I'm wondering would it be a bad idea to clean the rust off of my bayonet? Would that increase or decrease its value and longevity. Is its value even an issue or is this particular type of bayonet pretty common?
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Post by hotspur on Dec 28, 2007 6:00:13 GMT
I use a product named Liquid Wrench applied to a soft cloth as a first step for red rust. WD-40 will work to a lessr extent. What you don't want to do is add scratches. The penetrating oil will soften loose rust and let you gently scrub a lot away. Some like brass brushes. You can find them in some hardware and auto supply stores/sections. In the kitchen section of many supermarkets, you will find plastic pot scrubbers. They look a bit like a ball of coarse steel wool but are plastic (usually yellow). Regular and electric toohbrushes (I use an oscillating Braun) can come in handy. Very fine steel wool as the most abrasive thing one might consider.
I don't really follow the bayonet market but I have to imagine they are not rare. VAlue would drop if you scratched the beejezus out of it or even sharpened it.
It is really a subjective call how far to go in cleaning antiques. Red rust removal is never bad but the dark stain remaining might mean going too far to remove. Dark pitting and corrosion is best left alone after surface cleaning. Some do go so far as taking grips off to clean underneath. The scabbard is a nice plus but don't go crazy with putting stuff on it that will soften it a lot. Definitely not mink oil or neatsfoot oil. Saddlery products, harness dressings, stuff like that would be fine.
One fellow uses nothing but paste wax to both clean and preserve antiques.
Enjoy, that is the biggest part.
Cheers
Hotspur; having gone too far more than once, I try to take it slow and easy
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2007 16:19:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2008 4:24:43 GMT
Could I use a rust eraser? Or do those tend to damage the steel?
Doesn't seem to be worth much. I found one going for $40 on ebay. I guess that means I don't have to use a cloth every time I touch it. Still I'm gonna assume I shouldn't treat the same way as I would a $40 contemporary piece (sharpening it and using it to hack at milk jugs). The thing could be nearly 100 years old.
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Post by hotspur on Jan 3, 2008 1:16:48 GMT
I've never used a rust eraser, so I can't say how abrasive they are. Me, I'd go with gentler approaches but how you decide to proceed is entirely up to you. if the rust eraser scratches steel, it kind of defeats the concept of conservation. if you want the blade polished bright, they might be the way to go but any original grinding and polishing marks will be gone.
Sharpening, same thing. Purely subjective. From what you mentioned, it never had been. I did put an edge on an inexpensive 1950s bayonet and even regret that now. It was more a case of that I could, more than there was any practical purpose in doing so.
If I owned this piece, I would be looking at conserving it, not modifying it.
Cheers
Hotspur; it is a family keepsake, after all. Preserve/conserve it for another generation
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2008 22:42:57 GMT
Don't use a rust eraser,it will scratch it for sure.nice piece.
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