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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2007 7:56:53 GMT
Interesting news: I was just perusing some saber threads over at myArmoury, and I came across one in which Hank Reinhardt confirmed some earlier suspicion I had that Cold Steel's swords (at least their sabers and possibly other swords) were, in fact, being made by Windlass Steelcrafts. According to Hank, in a post from last year, they indeed are. I was pretty well convinced when CS released their Indian Cavalry Saber and Shamshir (scimitar), which look just like the versions offered by WS through both MRL and Atlanta Cutlery. The specific sword Hank mentioned by name was the 1796, which would explain the change in hilt construction I ranted about in my other saber thread. Yep, ShooterMike, that's a gen-you-wine Windlass Steelcrafts 1796 you've been cutting with. ;D I'm not saying this is a bad thing. In fact, since I had no idea where CS's non-Japanese style swords were being made before, it's sort of a relief to know they're now having these swords made by a known quantity (i.e., Windlass).  Enquiring minds want to know... ;D |
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Post by admin on Mar 26, 2007 11:24:32 GMT
I often wondered about this, especially as Cold Steel swords seem to be made just a little differently than Windlasses usual swords. But then again, even within Windlass I suspected that not all of their swords were made at the same place... I asked Chris at Reliks about this a while ago and he said that all Windlass swords are made by Windlass, though not necessarily at the same facility... Indeed, I'd like to know which ones are made where as some seem to be more detailed but are more problematic (whippy blades and loose fittings), while there are others (such as the Sticklestad Viking Sword - which I have here waiting to be reviewed properly) that are as solid as a rock though a bit simpler looking. At a guess, due to the Indian export laws, I'd have to say that they sharpen their swords in house (and they certainly know how to put a nice single bevelled edge on a sword!). But it would be interesting to get a real behind the scenes snoop... Leave it to me and I'll see what I can come up with..!  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2007 18:57:29 GMT
Please do snoop around, Paul. I'd like to know more myself. As you asked, which swords are they making and where, etc? I'm hoping Hank will comment on this at some point, too.  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2007 3:25:33 GMT
Hey y'all,
This might help: I just received my Cold Steel 1860 Heavy Cavalry Sabre a few days ago (its really more like the 1840 Hvy Cav Sabre to me). There was a round tab or tag in the packaging or attached saying "COLD STEEL; World's Sharpest Swords; Made in India" . I don't know if it is Windless, but they are from India! But I actually don't mind. I have several swords from MRL; A couple of Viking swords, two 1860 Lt. Cav Sabres, and three spears, all made by Windless, and they are very well made swords and spears with nicely tempered blades, etc.. I have no complaints.
Another thing. I ordered an 1862 Lt. Cav Sabre from Ames Sword Co recently. I called to check on my order and they said it was being assembled as we spoke by someone named Keith. I asked about that and he told me their blades are made "overseas" but their handles, etc., are made here, I think by Ames, and assembled at Ames. I should get it soon.
Take care,
Freebooter
Alabama
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2007 7:00:20 GMT
Hey y'all, This might help: I just received my Cold Steel 1860 Heavy Cavalry Sabre a few days ago (its really more like the 1840 Hvy Cav Sabre to me). There was a round tab or tag in the packaging or attached saying "COLD STEEL; World's Sharpest Swords; Made in India" . I don't know if it is Windless, but they are from India! But I actually don't mind. I have several swords from MRL; A couple of Viking swords, two 1860 Lt. Cav Sabres, and three spears, all made by Windless, and they are very well made swords and spears with nicely tempered blades, etc.. I have no complaints. Another thing. I ordered an 1862 Lt. Cav Sabre from Ames Sword Co recently. I called to check on my order and they said it was being assembled as we spoke by someone named Keith. I asked about that and he told me their blades are made "overseas" but their handles, etc., are made here, I think by Ames, and assembled at Ames. I should get it soon. Take care, Freebooter Alabama There are apparently tons of little forges in India making swords, which is what makes it so hard to pin down. It's often suspected (though never confirmed) that even Windlass Steelcrafts farms out some of its work to other Indian forges, even though they have a pretty high tech facility themselves.  I wouldn't be too surprised if Ames's blade were made by Windlass also, since they're the biggest and most reputable forge in India. Then, all they have to do is make up the hilt and do some final finishing, keeping the prices reasonable. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2007 0:47:07 GMT
Hey y'all,
Just got my Ames sword today, and two MRL sabres of the same model yesterday. I posted something about them on the reviews forum.
FB
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Post by hotspur on May 3, 2007 1:52:36 GMT
I don't mean to be too contentious in this reply but it really might be better said that Windlass Steelcrafts is a premier importer of India produced blades.
If one spends some time snooping around on India Mart and other sites that list many of these forges, you can start to see that just because something is stamped or labeled India, does not always mean produced in a Wndlass Steelcrafts shop.
A case in point, for those reading into what Hank wrote (more than a year ago?). The Discriminating General (Military Heritage) 1796 was compared to the Cold Steel 1796 more than five years ago. They were found to be identical at that time, aside from CS shipping sharps and offering a wood/leather scabbard option. To say Windlass is making the current CS 1796 is a stretch. Supplying/importing them now, yes (apparently). I read here the other evening a claim they are of a differnt build and would be interested in hearing/seeing the specifics. The old Windlass 1796 (1990s) was not as good a sword as the MH and CS swords are said to be. There are also other lesser swords available from folk like IMA.
If Windlass is making the CS offerings (1860, scimitar, Indian model 1908, etc) Why is the build of the 1860 so radically different than the Windlass store stock. Simply new and improved by them? semprinis, I say. Different shop is the impression I get.
If an item actually has a Windlass stamp, ink, or label; I will believe it to come from their direct effort. Otherwise, I will go on believing that other items are simply being imported by them.
TWo interesting sites popped up while looking at import and shop lists last year. One was a shop site with the Discriminating General animated gif and another selling swords that were discontinued in MRL/AC catalogs more than seven years ago.
I keep promising to produce links and when I get it all assembled, I'll post it somewhere, or maybe put up a simple page. I'm not doubting Paul's reated conversation with the proprieter of Reliks, I'm just not certain I would agree that fellow has all the information available. I have no idea how Windlass reps and marketing agents run their rap.
In the end, it doesn't really matter. All these shops have contact information. My feeling is that CS simply wanted to streamline the importing process and turned to the Windlass corporate machine to save some money on logistics. Filling shipping containers costs money.
It has been interesting to read David's (Freebooter) impression of some of the sabres.
Cheers
Hotspur; what is with the no paragraph breaks and squashing all the text together? Maybe it's just my browser
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2007 3:32:42 GMT
Hey Hotspur,
Good to see you here. I just found this site a while back and found some fellow saberites.
Later,
FB
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2007 3:52:00 GMT
Hotspur, the differences are in the hilt as seen in this thread /index.cgi?board=military&action=display&thread=1170308320&page=2 (see my pic halfway down). The latest versions of Cold Steel's 1796's have a wierd "button" on the end of the tang. Since I returned the sword shortly after it arrived, I never did determine whether this was a threaded or peened (or possibly both?) assembly. It just looked so wrong to me. THey have alwso taken to grinding the crosspin through the backstrap tabs down flush and polishing it into invisibility, though, acording to ShooterMike, it IS still present. Btw, it must be your browser. THere are spaces between your paragraphs on my screen. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2007 23:12:43 GMT
The understanding I have regarding the CS shamshir and the Windlass scimitar is that they are made at the same facility, according to slightly different specifications. (This from one of the "floor" people at MRL's storefront, whose name at the moment escapes me). The blade in both models is the same. Whether the facility in question is owned by Windlass I do not know. Its quite possible that it is or just as plausible that both are outsourcing to a third party, as India has many forges (of no doubt varying quality). Do Windlass and Cold Steel have a connection? Well the answer if an obvious yes. Just a look through the last few MRL catalogs will confirm that MRL has scrapped their own offerings of Japanese swords in favor of Cold Steel's. (I don't recall at the moment whether Windlass still still offers the low end pieces through Atlanta Cutlery, or if those have been dropped as well) Is this a quid pro quo for the shamshirs and cutlasses? Who knows? The question, I think, is this a bad thing for the users? Personally, I think in the long term if 1) the trend continues and 2) expands, it will be. It will lead to fewer designs and interpretations being offered in the sub 300 market and my guess is general fall-off in quality due to less competition. This will be especially true if more manufacturers follow suit (and let's face it, cutting costs to boost profit motivates the corporate sword manufacturers). Hopefully, I'll be wrong. I do know that I have felt like there has been a distinct fall off in the offerings presented by MRL since Windlass bought the company. (And this is from a true Windlass fan here). It seems like Windlass has decided to fill the void left my the closing of United Cutlery, a move some may applaud (but not me), to the detriment of its other offerings. Just a quick comment regarding discontinued Windlass' pieces popping up for sale. When I was there earlier this month, I was told some of the MRL employees had found several boxes of older pieces, hidden in the storeroom while cleaning up. They had about 20 of the old style archer's falchions, a handful of the original bronze scythian axes (the ones that the forge made with the horse head upside down , and a few other odd pieces. They may have dumped other, larger lots to resellers. Again, no clue, but it might explain those site offerings. Anyway, enough rambling for now. |
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Post by admin on Sept 10, 2007 7:47:20 GMT
I've just finished testing and reviewing the Cold Steel Shamshir, and aside from the obvious similarities which lead us to believe that they are made by Windlass, a couple of days ago I found some rock solid PROOF that they are made by Windlass (pardon the pun, as I typed in 'PROOF' in Capitals I realized the irony when talking about Cold Steel. Lol). Here's the new reviewAnd in it you will see I literally found a mark on the blade (right where you would expect it), though it would normally be polished off and was quite faint, that said:  Windlass Made in India Not sure if you can see it (you need to look close) - but it is there, and I think I have found the smoking gun... What is also interesting is the documentation I received with it that was an inspection sheet by Cold Steel which was signed off by an Indian Gent advising that the swords need to be sharp enough to cut Cold Steel stationary... So why does Windlass insist on exporting unsharpened swords? Could it be because of the cost of a permit that Cold Steel has but Windlass doesn't want to pay for? Hmm, solve one mystery...  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2007 0:46:38 GMT
LOL! Able to sever a clothesline with a single blow! ;D The smoking gun indeed. That blade marking seals the deal. I share your opinion from the review, though. I'm glade to know they are in fact made by Windlass (or one of their forges, whichever the case may be), rather than some lesser known/lower quality shop. It's not a huge surprise, but it's nice to know for sure, just to satisfy my own curiosity.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2008 0:04:39 GMT
Yes. I see it! (10 months later). "Windlass, Made in India".
But has anyone found similar markings on the 1796, 1830 and 1860 sabres?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2008 1:05:05 GMT
what about the grosse messer? im getting that ina few days because ive never seen windlass have a messer that ive seen at least
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