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Post by Krull on Aug 11, 2013 6:12:47 GMT
Okay I've debated just how to do this-and right up front I'll say while I'm very happy with the end results I'm also the tiniest bit disappointed as well. I also weighed just how I was going to go about posting this without being an arsehole about it,decided to just not pull any punches. First off I contacted Chris Palmer with this drawing and asked if he could make it,got a positive response and set the money off: I got this a week ago: Again I'm very pleased with it overall as it is a very brutal version of the Spartan sword and would look right at home in a 300 flim. But... If you look at it you can see it's all cockeyed and crooked,I've had to redo the blade as one side is not curved in as far as the other,the edge grinds are all different and no way I'm fooling with that. the handle is another mess,I'm sure you can tell that the rivets are all over the place..kind of amazing you could manage that with modern equipment,and the guard is...well look at it,one side's grind down farther then the other. In the end I could buy a $99 Windlass sword and have something put together better then this,I have a bunch of knives that look like this that I like too-they're made in Nepal by Kamis with very primitive equipment I'm just confused as to how an American maker could put this together and not think "hey I can do better!" also I've looked over Chris's other works on his site,here,and places like Kult of Athena and it looked about like a Windlass product,a few rough spots but nothing you would cry over. I doubt if any of them looked like this that he would sell many,so now I'm really tempted to buy one at a vendor and look over the build quality compared to mine. With the cutlass from EDMF I knew it was going to be pretty rough as it's sand casted aluminum-and at that Dale did a wonderful job with his homemade equipment. So I give Chris a solid 95% but take five off in confusion as to just why it got slapped together so shoddy,at least it's a good tough,solid sword with a proper temper and is taking a good sharp edge after all the grinding I'm doing on it. If it wasn't I'd be in the mood for war :twisted: :mrgreen:
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Aug 11, 2013 7:25:37 GMT
Ever can see any of the pictures you are trying to post maybe it's just me.
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Talon
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Post by Talon on Aug 11, 2013 8:09:15 GMT
Maybe it's my eye sight (i'm due a visit to the optician) but i can't see any bad grind or poor rivet placement.The rivets pretty much follow your sketch apart from the two smaller ones near the tang,also the one at the very top could be interpreted as a lanyard hole which is what Chris has done. The piece is hand made and hand ground.Looks very nice from what i can see,i wouldn't kick it out the sword stand
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Post by Krull on Aug 11, 2013 11:56:52 GMT
I'll get a better picture,but yes I would not kick it from the sword stand also I designed the topmost as a lanyard hole.
It is hand made definitely that's why I'm not too critical over it,some of it I just think a tad more attention is needed is all.
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Post by Krull on Aug 11, 2013 13:56:16 GMT
Okay more pictures. As you can see the handle is a little off,nothing major and mostly fixable,the blade is better as I've been working on it but the left is still a slight bit off the right side. The rivets though are funny. Overall all I can say is if you want a "perfect" sword forget Scorpion Swords as what Mr.Palmer builds is tools straight out,also forget it if you can't use a tool to "adjust" your purchase..unless it doesn't bug you,I'm OCD a bit and need to make it at least a little better :mrgreen:
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Aug 11, 2013 14:03:15 GMT
You got what you paid for what were you expecting form a US maker at $300.00. Will agree the rivets are off, nothing won't with the blade grind lines.
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Talon
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Post by Talon on Aug 11, 2013 15:18:33 GMT
Ah right i can see one off rivet now .The bevels do look fine though.Still looks like a nice design,very similar to the new Zombie Tools Xiphos. You could always remove the scales and re drill a central rivet hole a half inch further up toward the tang (would look better to me as the riveting looks a bit bunched up at the guard).Slap on two new scales and job done Or you could wrap some black self amalgamating tap on the grip,it would cover that rivet and give you a grippier grip.
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Aug 11, 2013 16:01:10 GMT
as a maker myself, i can tell you any hand made piece is going to have variations, if you want a cookie cutter machine ground blade with 100% perfect lines, the route of hand makers is not for you, All hand made blades will have various flaws and deviations, thats just the nature of doing hand work, you cant possibly get everything 100% perfect.One single slip with the grinder, or too much pressure in one spot and now youve got a slight variation in the grind. Most people dont understand this unless they have tried making a blade for themselves, myself included. Judging on the pics id have to say the sword looks exactly like id expect a hand made sword to look. It sucks that your expectations werent met, some people just dont like the hand made organic look and prefer the flawless machine look.
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Post by chrisperoni on Aug 11, 2013 16:23:47 GMT
I think I get what Krull is saying, but If I understand wrong please correct me man.
regarding price - that's not on the buyer- once the maker has agreed to do the work the price is his decision. The cost is decided by the maker and the buyer agrees to pay, so he can have what he asked for. That being said, $300 for a custom made anything is a deal for sure. Then again Krull does say he's 95% happy so don't take his critiques to harshly; he's just being specific about what let him down based on what he spent compared to what is out there for less.
2. The grip/rivets. None of them are in exact line with each other or symmetrical side to side - and doing rivets in line is a real semprini for sure (I can't get 'em right myself ever lol). But it does stand out and I can see when the design features prominently a certain rivet pattern then not matched (in number, size and placement mind you), that's a bummer. Not the end of the world as Krull points out, but we all know that feeling of instantly having our eyes drawn to the flaw in our "precious", despite knowing all the goodness is also there to see.
3. overall symmetry of blade shape. I can see that at just after the guard the... shoot I don't know what you call it but the very start of the blade against the handle, it's not exactly the same on each side. The belly is also uneven on each side.
Some other thoughts neither here nor there.. The shaping of the grip being a touch off side to side in the pics could easily be the way light plays off each curve. It's very hard to take a pic that shows this sort of thing without funny things being done by lighting. this much shaping would be extremely hard to get exactly right all the way around- lots of curving, multiple angles meeting etc. I have a hard time making a simple ovoid handle grip the same all the way around.
The design as a whole is super kickass and I'd be happy to have it done as well as this is for the $300. I'd also always notice the rivets thing, but the rest would not really catch my eye or bug me- lines along the blade not being exact to each other is a nice thing to me- give it that handmade look that tells me something about the personalized manufacture of it.
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Post by Krull on Aug 11, 2013 17:48:35 GMT
chrisperoni is right on,I'm not freaked out just noting some flaws,though I will point out most knife makers I've seen and know (I want to make them myself somedays so I'm on a few knife maker forums) would be a tiny bit pissed with themselves not getting the rivets at least close.
Well I can ignore that but the blade needs some help I'm slowly working it to a closer shape,not perfect,but closer then what it is.
My guess is Palmer has so much to do he tries to get it done fast,too fast leads to this I think it only fair to let him know that by posting my thoughts.
If it cost me another hundred bucks to get him to slow down and a month or so more to get it done I'd be good with that.
Still I'm happy with it,and with the skill I have I can fix it up myself so no big deal.
Basically what I'm saying is organic is okay,a little variation is fine-going too fast and being sloppy is not and I hope he can own up to that. otherwise he did good and for the price I can forgive a little easier.
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Post by chrisperoni on Aug 11, 2013 17:50:18 GMT
did you bring any of this up with Scorpion Swords? It's usually a good idea to talk with the maker and see what they say.
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Post by Krull on Aug 11, 2013 19:12:14 GMT
I need to get ahold of him,thing is I'm not sure how to do it all the contact links on the site seems geared to business and not much on feedback.
I know he comes here and another forum I'm active at so I hope we'll run into each other.
He does have a testimonial page but it's all glowing reviews so I dunno how a slightly negative one would fair.
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Aug 12, 2013 3:37:02 GMT
There are plenty on custom makers who can hold prefect grind lines doing it free hand. I'm not one of them yet but getting there. Of course they charge alot more for their knives than I do. Your not going to get one of their knives or a short sword for $300.00.
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Talon
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Post by Talon on Aug 12, 2013 3:51:45 GMT
Scorpion have it listed for $239 plus shipping viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18064I'm still struggling to see the poor bevels :? .Krull i understand that it can be annoying when you receive something you're not totally happy with,but honestly apart from that one poor rivet placement the blade looks very good to me. If it was mine i would redo the scales and move the rivet up the tang by a half inch. 95% happy for the price you paid is pretty good going though
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Aug 12, 2013 9:25:13 GMT
But if you add in the sheath and shipping your at $300.00.
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Post by Krull on Aug 13, 2013 21:53:34 GMT
Okay so after some thought I made a decision:go bananas with the tools! :twisted: It's better now,has no edge whatsoever but better,decided to try and wrap the handle and I like it just not sure if I keep how to hold it-it slides all over the place so dunno...glue maybe? :? I even went nuts on the handle,not perfect but closer: Overall I'm more pleased now and yes I do realize for the money you ain't going to get a perfect sword,granted I didn't think I'd be getting a project sword that needed some work,oh well.....
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Post by dickthemonkey on Sept 13, 2020 3:05:03 GMT
I'm about to make my 2nd purchase from Chris, and my first was a lakonian striker. Solid sword, and I think the little imperfections like that grind being a little "off"make it yours or that rivet not lining up like you woulda done it, are probably done for a reason, I'm not a blacksmith, so I don't know, but I think they do amazing work for the prices at his shop. I just got a 30" bladed gladius style sword, two handed handle at around 10", overall 41-42" for $300. And they are stupid tough.
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Post by dickthemonkey on Sept 13, 2020 3:57:38 GMT
Thank you for letting me know brother. . . Lol I was just trying to be helpful. I just figured if I read this today, maybe someone else would too. . . I think I may have been right. . .
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Post by goji2527 on Dec 17, 2020 20:56:59 GMT
I just returned...and my old account seems to be kaput,I tried every damned thing to get it to work but gave up.
Anyway my opinion still stands somewhat,but I'll admit I was mostly upset at what I got it just wasn't up to what I expected so I'll close this out by saying this:
If you order from Mr. Palmer you will get a functional sword. Do not expect him to follow your design exactly,it will be close but not perfect. His level of quality is akin to Windlass Steelcraft's cheaper products,the grinds are wonky and he obviously uses a sheet of steel and a grinder all by hand so it's not unexpected. For the price you may be upset like me but remember higher quality finish equals higher price so for what he does it's a bargain You may wind up fiddling with it or just accept it's Mad Max style finish.
I sold mine off a few months after I bought it,I'll still recommend the guy but personally I've found better products like the APOC line or even Condor's stuff.
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