Important Announcement regarding Manufacturers and Vendors
Aug 8, 2013 7:39:17 GMT
Post by Daniel Dacombe on Aug 8, 2013 7:39:17 GMT
Good morning everyone,
Over the last several months we as staff of SBG along with many longstanding members have noticed some changes to the spirit of the community. These changes have been small and subtle, but have added up to a pervasive, underlying negativity in the group. I hope you'll take a few minutes to read a bit about what is going in and what we've decided to do about it.
The Sword Buyer’s Guide has always billed itself as the “friendliest sword forum” on the internet, and since 2006 Paul Southren and the members here have tried their best to make that the truth. The reason for this tagline was because there were other sword forums on the internet, ones populated by historians, experts, and individuals who had been collecting swords even in the “dark days” before the advent of the online sword market. These collectors had come through many difficulties in order to own the precious few quality swords that were available at the time, and occasionally reacted with impatience, exasperation or even outright hostility towards newcomers to the community. And who could blame them? After the 37th thread asking if a stainless-steel wallhanger katana was “battle-ready” or not, even the most patient of collectors would hit the Caps Lock key and start ranting until their fingers bled.
Clearly, the newcomers needed a place to go in order to be introduced to the slowly growing online community, a place that would accept them at whatever level of knowledge and experience they had and allow them to grow. Paul started the forum for this reason, and through the last 7 years it has grown into an incredible community. I can recall joining in 2007, when “sub-300” sword collecting was an uncertain grab bag of possibilities. I was thrilled to find a forum that not only had collectors but a slowly growing group of sword manufacturers and vendors, people who would begin to shape the industry in ways we couldn’t imagine. I am thankful to call many people here, both members and makers, friends of mine. It was and always has been my favourite friendly place on the Internet.
There comes a time, though, when being friendly can be a problem. When SBG was started it was “anything goes” – the community was small and the members got along. As the community grew, the member base expanded beyond what was easily managed by Paul alone – and so volunteer moderators were added. It was not something that was met with unanimous approval – in fact, no decision made by Paul and the SBG staff since then (that I can recall) has pleased everyone. That’s a hard thing to deal with when you are supposed to be the “friendliest” forum – for every decision that pleases 80% of the population, 15% are going to be unhappy. The other 5% might actually take the changes as a personal affront, a sign of a conspiracy against them, proof that what they had been saying about things “all along” had been right. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been called nasty names, told to do improbable things with my anatomy, even outright threatened once just for asking people to follow the rules they agreed to play by…
Another issue with being friendly – sometimes people can mistake it for weakness or complacency. As SBG and its reputation and influence in the industry has grown, we have had people try and take advantage of the members here. Some have been people selling faked or stolen products in the classifieds, and we have deleted their accounts as needed. Others have been vendors who have misrepresented their practices or products, and with them the response can be trickier. For one thing, by the time we realize that a vendor is not being entirely truthful about their products they may have amassed a following of fans who would object loudly to any criticism. For another, the claims they may be making might be very difficult to disprove without investing considerable time and capital in investigating them. And when all is said and done, is it really the place of the “friendliest” sword forum to call out people for their marketing practices?
Ordinarily, no. Marketing gimmicks are what they are – that’s the price of a capitalist world. But when SBG becomes a place where less-scrupulous individuals can knowingly lie to members, and the members believe that a green Manufacturers and Vendors tag means that SBG supports what the vendor is saying, then action has to be taken. Otherwise SBG is letting its members be taken advantage of in order to protect its reputation as the “friendliest sword forum,” and that goes against the spirit of what Paul wanted this place to be in the beginning. Friendliness only goes so far – we have a responsibility to you, the members, to make sure that the SBG name does not get misused by people for personal gain at the expense of unsuspecting customers. And unfortunately, the negativity many have noticed here lately are as a result of people taking advantage of SBG's good graces in this area.
And we have decided that we can no longer sit idly by while this spirit remains.
To that end, we are announcing two things: a policy change for our Manufacturer’s and Vendor’s section, and a denouncement of someone who has been misrepresenting his products to the community. We understand that these changes may not be popular, and the denouncement may cause waves or backlash. There will be cries of bias, of favouritism, of an attempt to "drive out" competitors. That is acceptable - we know we can't please everyone, as much as we would like to. That is one reason why I was the person to draw up the policy and participate in the investigation on the vendor in question; I don't "have a dog in this fight," as it were. I am not a vendor, and I do not benefit from these changes in any way, personally or professionally. I am not showing favouritism or repeating a "party line" - I have barely been on SBG in the last year. Hopefully this will add to the reliability of the information that we will present.
The Updated Policy
- Any Manufacturer/vendor making claims on their products should expect to back them up. A phrase heard in many scientific circles is, “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” If a Manufacturer/vendor is putting forth claims about their products (including "super steels," mysterious processes that only they are able to access, etc.) that they are unable to produce evidence for, they should fully expect their claims to be put to the test and potentially investigated to ensure that the SBG community is not being deceived. Any Manufacturers/vendors who wish to back up their claims without disclosing their grand secrets to the forum at large may contact SBG staff, who will commit every reasonable effort to keep confidentiality while investigating the claims being made.
- Manufacturers/vendors are permitted one account - multiple or "dummy" accounts will not be tolerated.
- Manufacturers/vendors are expected to treat members and fellow Manufacturers/vendors with respect. Infighting, derogatory comments, or insults (however oblique or implied) will not be tolerated.
- While it is to be expected that every brand will have its fans, Manufacturers/vendors are NOT to encourage their fans to come to their defense when their products are being challenged, instruct their fans to undermine or attack other Manufacturers/vendors, or otherwise organize viral marketing using the SBG forum. We have had multiple reports of Manufacturers/vendors organizing with their fans to incite members to put down competitors and their products, and this divisive practice has no place here.
If there are any questions, please direct them to Paul Southren, myself, William Swiger or another SBG staff. Thank you for your cooperation.
Over the last several months we as staff of SBG along with many longstanding members have noticed some changes to the spirit of the community. These changes have been small and subtle, but have added up to a pervasive, underlying negativity in the group. I hope you'll take a few minutes to read a bit about what is going in and what we've decided to do about it.
The Sword Buyer’s Guide has always billed itself as the “friendliest sword forum” on the internet, and since 2006 Paul Southren and the members here have tried their best to make that the truth. The reason for this tagline was because there were other sword forums on the internet, ones populated by historians, experts, and individuals who had been collecting swords even in the “dark days” before the advent of the online sword market. These collectors had come through many difficulties in order to own the precious few quality swords that were available at the time, and occasionally reacted with impatience, exasperation or even outright hostility towards newcomers to the community. And who could blame them? After the 37th thread asking if a stainless-steel wallhanger katana was “battle-ready” or not, even the most patient of collectors would hit the Caps Lock key and start ranting until their fingers bled.
Clearly, the newcomers needed a place to go in order to be introduced to the slowly growing online community, a place that would accept them at whatever level of knowledge and experience they had and allow them to grow. Paul started the forum for this reason, and through the last 7 years it has grown into an incredible community. I can recall joining in 2007, when “sub-300” sword collecting was an uncertain grab bag of possibilities. I was thrilled to find a forum that not only had collectors but a slowly growing group of sword manufacturers and vendors, people who would begin to shape the industry in ways we couldn’t imagine. I am thankful to call many people here, both members and makers, friends of mine. It was and always has been my favourite friendly place on the Internet.
There comes a time, though, when being friendly can be a problem. When SBG was started it was “anything goes” – the community was small and the members got along. As the community grew, the member base expanded beyond what was easily managed by Paul alone – and so volunteer moderators were added. It was not something that was met with unanimous approval – in fact, no decision made by Paul and the SBG staff since then (that I can recall) has pleased everyone. That’s a hard thing to deal with when you are supposed to be the “friendliest” forum – for every decision that pleases 80% of the population, 15% are going to be unhappy. The other 5% might actually take the changes as a personal affront, a sign of a conspiracy against them, proof that what they had been saying about things “all along” had been right. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been called nasty names, told to do improbable things with my anatomy, even outright threatened once just for asking people to follow the rules they agreed to play by…
Another issue with being friendly – sometimes people can mistake it for weakness or complacency. As SBG and its reputation and influence in the industry has grown, we have had people try and take advantage of the members here. Some have been people selling faked or stolen products in the classifieds, and we have deleted their accounts as needed. Others have been vendors who have misrepresented their practices or products, and with them the response can be trickier. For one thing, by the time we realize that a vendor is not being entirely truthful about their products they may have amassed a following of fans who would object loudly to any criticism. For another, the claims they may be making might be very difficult to disprove without investing considerable time and capital in investigating them. And when all is said and done, is it really the place of the “friendliest” sword forum to call out people for their marketing practices?
Ordinarily, no. Marketing gimmicks are what they are – that’s the price of a capitalist world. But when SBG becomes a place where less-scrupulous individuals can knowingly lie to members, and the members believe that a green Manufacturers and Vendors tag means that SBG supports what the vendor is saying, then action has to be taken. Otherwise SBG is letting its members be taken advantage of in order to protect its reputation as the “friendliest sword forum,” and that goes against the spirit of what Paul wanted this place to be in the beginning. Friendliness only goes so far – we have a responsibility to you, the members, to make sure that the SBG name does not get misused by people for personal gain at the expense of unsuspecting customers. And unfortunately, the negativity many have noticed here lately are as a result of people taking advantage of SBG's good graces in this area.
And we have decided that we can no longer sit idly by while this spirit remains.
To that end, we are announcing two things: a policy change for our Manufacturer’s and Vendor’s section, and a denouncement of someone who has been misrepresenting his products to the community. We understand that these changes may not be popular, and the denouncement may cause waves or backlash. There will be cries of bias, of favouritism, of an attempt to "drive out" competitors. That is acceptable - we know we can't please everyone, as much as we would like to. That is one reason why I was the person to draw up the policy and participate in the investigation on the vendor in question; I don't "have a dog in this fight," as it were. I am not a vendor, and I do not benefit from these changes in any way, personally or professionally. I am not showing favouritism or repeating a "party line" - I have barely been on SBG in the last year. Hopefully this will add to the reliability of the information that we will present.
The Updated Policy
- Any Manufacturer/vendor making claims on their products should expect to back them up. A phrase heard in many scientific circles is, “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” If a Manufacturer/vendor is putting forth claims about their products (including "super steels," mysterious processes that only they are able to access, etc.) that they are unable to produce evidence for, they should fully expect their claims to be put to the test and potentially investigated to ensure that the SBG community is not being deceived. Any Manufacturers/vendors who wish to back up their claims without disclosing their grand secrets to the forum at large may contact SBG staff, who will commit every reasonable effort to keep confidentiality while investigating the claims being made.
- Manufacturers/vendors are permitted one account - multiple or "dummy" accounts will not be tolerated.
- Manufacturers/vendors are expected to treat members and fellow Manufacturers/vendors with respect. Infighting, derogatory comments, or insults (however oblique or implied) will not be tolerated.
- While it is to be expected that every brand will have its fans, Manufacturers/vendors are NOT to encourage their fans to come to their defense when their products are being challenged, instruct their fans to undermine or attack other Manufacturers/vendors, or otherwise organize viral marketing using the SBG forum. We have had multiple reports of Manufacturers/vendors organizing with their fans to incite members to put down competitors and their products, and this divisive practice has no place here.
If there are any questions, please direct them to Paul Southren, myself, William Swiger or another SBG staff. Thank you for your cooperation.