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Post by justin520 on Jul 9, 2013 0:52:29 GMT
Hi I'm new to the forum I've been researching the Ryukyuan equivalent of the Samurai, they're called the Pechin. From what I've learned they had taken Katana from Japan and repurposed them for one handed use and put Chinese furniture on them (they had close ties to I believe the ming and qing dynasties). So if I can't find repros to buy I'd really like a guy who could mod my weapon out for me.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Jul 9, 2013 1:39:02 GMT
I am not aware of any Ryukyuan swords, I tend to think they would be captured weapons rather than forged in house.
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Post by justin520 on Jul 9, 2013 1:49:44 GMT
Well for the most part yes, they would capture many katana and reform the tang to accept chinese fittings.
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Post by Onimusha on Jul 9, 2013 2:59:26 GMT
Sort of like a Dao with a katana blade?
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Post by justin520 on Jul 9, 2013 3:10:24 GMT
There's only a few remaining in museums, the majority have dao style tsuka and there's a couple that look like jian. They were almost always drawn from the hand rather than the hip.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Jul 9, 2013 3:19:34 GMT
AT what time? Under the Japanese occupation, they would travel to Japan to study swordsmanship, to have their swords maintained (and probably to buy swords), and Japanese art shows Okinawans (in Japan) carrying katana. So, post 1609, a katana.
Pre-1609? A Chinese sword.
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Post by justin520 on Jul 9, 2013 3:25:35 GMT
Pre Satsuma domain Occupation.
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Post by justin520 on Jul 9, 2013 3:26:40 GMT
Also japanese art shows Okinawans and Ainu looking like japanese folk, colonialist cultures are like that. We know that that is completely historically inaccurate as well, given they had their own clothing and culture.
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Post by justin520 on Jul 13, 2013 20:39:36 GMT
Here are some pictures of the most famous Ryukyuan blade that still exists, it's called the Chiyoganemaru. I can't find to many more, I have never ever ever 10000 times never seen this sword have a reproduction made, I would be so darned happy if I could get a functional repro of this though.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Jul 14, 2013 1:31:28 GMT
14th century, supposed to be a Japanese-made blade. A royal treasure, so maybe not very representative of Ryukyuan swords in general. See, for example, this early Edo Japanese sword, which is not even close to being a typical early Edo sword. Reminds me of some Thai swords: (These swords are discussed here.) Japanese swords (and spears, and armours) were a major trade item passing through the Ryukyus, so seeing Japanese blades before the Satsuma conquest isn't a surprise. Most of those weapons would have passed through to other parts of Asia, such as SE Asia. Ming China imported large numbers of Japanese blades (100,000s), through official trade (i.e., directly with Japan), so there might have been less opportunity for Ryukyuan middlemen to sell swords to China, until the official trade was cut in the mid-16th century. Attachments:
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Jul 15, 2013 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by justin520 on Jul 15, 2013 14:07:37 GMT
I don't think these dha and other various swords effectively represent Ryukyuan blades, that being said if these were reproduced I would buy them.
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Post by justin520 on Jul 15, 2013 14:09:16 GMT
[/attachment] japthai.jpg[/attachment] (These swords are discussed here.) Japanese swords (and spears, and armours) were a major trade item passing through the Ryukyus, so seeing Japanese blades before the Satsuma conquest isn't a surprise. Most of those weapons would have passed through to other parts of Asia, such as SE Asia. Ming China imported large numbers of Japanese blades (100,000s), through official trade (i.e., directly with Japan), so there might have been less opportunity for Ryukyuan middlemen to sell swords to China, until the official trade was cut in the mid-16th century.[/quote] Where are producers of good functional Dha Lwe? I know this is about getting Ryukyuan swords made but a lot of these thai blades are cool!
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Jul 15, 2013 23:48:39 GMT
See especially posts #3 and #21 in the vikingsword thread. Start with katana blade, and DIY mount. Done! Or something like this might be OK as is: www.ebay.com/itm/141013026743As for functional dha/daarb of traditional style, I have seen such for sale. I'll see if I can find a working website.
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Post by justin520 on Jul 16, 2013 0:50:52 GMT
That would be awesome tim! As far as my Ryukyu style sword I'm getting nihonzashi to do my mods.
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Post by justin520 on Jul 16, 2013 18:35:46 GMT
So to convert my Ronin Dojo Pro to I suppose a Pechin Dojo Pro The nokago we'll be reduced by about 4 inches, a new tsuka will be made to fit this probably with full samegawa instead of panels and a battle wrap ito with only 1 menuki, a new tsuba (probably prass) as well as fuchi and koshiri, and a new saya with no kurikata or sageo for the hand carried Ryukyu style (Which doesn't exist anymore so I'm training with master). I'm thinking gold and black Ito, white samegawa, and gold saya with those little sparkle flecks in it, top it off with a rooster theme and that will be the business. I'll have pics up when nihonzashi finishes it for me. This is costing me more than the sword itself but I feel it's worth it to have a unique cultural piece that nobody makes.
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Post by justin520 on Jul 16, 2013 22:45:55 GMT
There's also a slight chip at the tip of my blade and a rolled edge in my kissaki area, if anybody can link me to good customs pages I'd appreciate it kindly.
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Post by lordameth on Aug 11, 2013 0:09:16 GMT
Yes, for some reason, certain classes of the Ryukyuan aristocracy have come to be called "samuree" (i.e. samurai). I've yet to happen across an explanation of when or why this came about, but, it's important to understand that the Ryukyuan aristocracy, like in China, was composed of scholar-bureaucrats in the Confucian model, and *not* a warrior aristocracy as existed in shogunate-era Japan. And within that aristocracy there were various ranks or titles, kind of like how England had Dukes, Counts, Earls, and Barons. Peechin was simply one of these ranks, above Satunushi and Chikudun, but below Ueekata, Anji, and Ôji (Prince). Certainly, the kingdom had a military, and I suppose it's quite reasonable that these Confucian scholar-aristocrats engaged in some martial arts practices, but, there was no "warrior class" in Ryukyu, certainly no ruling warrior class akin to the samurai of Japan. I haven't read up on it yet entirely, but I imagine several possibilities for the origination of the term "samuree" (or samurai) being applied to Ryukyuan figures. (1) The word 'samurai' originally means "to serve," as in someone who serves the Court, and so Ryukyu may have employed the term in this manner, (2) when the Japanese interacted with Ryukyu, either in the Tokugawa period or earlier, they understood Ryukyu through their own lens of understanding, equating a ruling class with being samurai, or (3) after the Ryukyu Kingdom was abolished in the 1870s, and the Ryukyuan former aristocracy was melded with the class of former samurai now called "shizoku", the two came to be regarded as the same thing. Indeed, I was at the Okinawa Prefectural Museum just a few days ago, and the gallery labels there translate "shizoku" (which I might translate as "aristocracy" or "nobles") as "samurai."
(I know this is my first post; hello to everyone and my apologies to rock the boat or anything. Yoroshiku onegaishimasu.)
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Post by justin520 on Aug 11, 2013 1:12:37 GMT
This is all lovely information in the historical context, but could you please give me more info about their swords, particularly their reformed katana.
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Post by lordameth on Aug 11, 2013 2:18:16 GMT
No, I'm afraid I can't. I'm not a swords expert, and this is just flat-out something I do not know about. Haven't come across it in any of my reading, either, with the exception of that Greg Smits touches upon the subject very briefly, in his article on " The Myth of Ryukyuan Pacifism," writing: Two sources he cites might be good sources for further information: *Uezato Takashi, “Ko-Ryūkyū no guntai to sono rekishiteki tenkai,” Ryūkyū Ajia shakai bunka kenkyūkai kiyō, no. 5 (October, 2002), pp. 113-114. *Uezato Takashi, “Ryūkyū no kaki ni tsuite,” Okinawa bunka, vol. 36, no. 91 (2000), p. 76. Best of luck!
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