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Post by THE_SUPERWEIRDO on Jun 28, 2013 1:39:46 GMT
Thanks yet again, Onimusha!
Now all I need is some tips (Strange to me how they don't come with any... -_- ) And an arm guard and maybe gloves and I guess I'm good to go.
Though what would be better, screw-in tips or glued tips? 'm also entirely vexed with this insert option, thinking if it may or may not be useful... All I really need is some basic field tips (That is 125 grain) and are attached to the shafts as durable as possible.
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Post by Onimusha on Jun 28, 2013 1:45:17 GMT
Either one is good. Glue in tips don't loosen. They are what competition archers use. The screw in tips give you the option of easily changing points. If, at some point, you decide you want to hunt, you just unscrew them and replace them with the appropriate point (blunts for small stuff. Broadheads for big game). For the glove and armguard, any of these are fine. search.3riversarchery.com/nav/ca ... rmguards/0 I would recommend this as well. www.3riversarchery.com/AAE+Fletc ... eitem.html. Fletchings will become damaged, come off, or otherwise wear out. This tool will save you a lot of money in the long run.
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Post by THE_SUPERWEIRDO on Jun 28, 2013 1:58:03 GMT
Hmmm... that does sound really interesting having screwed in points. That may also avoid any faulting glueing by me...
So do the arrows that I chose compatible with such tips? And do I need those insert things I keep hearing about as well?
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Post by Onimusha on Jun 28, 2013 2:03:21 GMT
Yes, all carbon arrows can take a screw in tip. They will need inserts. Those gold tips take 5/16" diameter points. Screw in points are the most common type found on carbon arrows. The inserts will give you the widest range of point options. I'd recommend some loctite on the threads to keep them from loosening. You'll know if they do because the arrow will buzz, and it won't fly right.
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Post by chrisperoni on Jun 28, 2013 2:51:50 GMT
I would call or email Mark at Andover and talk with him. He'll explain and answer questions, get you set up and pick out arrows etc. Let him know Chris from Windsor Canada recommended his store.
edit/add: The Samick Sage is alright but having tried one I feel the target takedown recurves from Greatree are better (firefox, mohegan etc.) and the hunting takedowns are much better.
Lancaster and 3rivers are great stores no doubt; but they are big stores and I like to support small businesses when I can. Andover is a 2nd generation family owned/operated store, has fantastic service, knowledge, great pricing, and is the first place I look when I want more achery equip. They've been able to source equipment for me which is not listed on their site. They are located in the same state and close to the USA warehouse for Greatree as well.
BTW - Greatree makes several bows for other companies which rebrand them (a.k.a. change the name).
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Post by THE_SUPERWEIRDO on Jun 28, 2013 4:13:48 GMT
Indeed, I do like the price and to support small businesses as well, but I tend to have a sense of comfort when shopping in big well known stores with good reputation. But rest assured, I may get a bow from Andover Archery They're longbows look very nice for price It seems archery will be a fun experience for me like when I started on swords, but except it won't last long... Archery is expensive :?
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Post by THE_SUPERWEIRDO on Jun 28, 2013 4:45:32 GMT
As for the arrow tip crafting, that would mean ordering the arrows with the inserts then, but if so, would that mean the arrows will be heavier at the tip? Making the shaft weaker from what I hear? All of this would make the order into this: Fletched Gold Tip Traditional .006 3555 [30" Length] (6pk)Cut Shafts - 29" &Install Inserts (6 pack) (+$7.00)And tips I found are these. Know if these are compatible? With the choices being: 5/16" 125 grain 12 ($4.99)(Just being paranoid here Don't want wasted money on useless arrows)
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Post by shoboshi on Jun 28, 2013 4:46:19 GMT
I will admit that I have skipped page 2 of this thread, but from what I've seen so far, I have to offer this advice: you get what you pay for.
I have been an archer pretty much my entire life. Doesn't mean I am particularly good or particularly knowledgeable. But quality does have a price.
Would you rather buy a bow once, or several times? With proper care, a quality bow will last. And it will last almost indefinitely. I have several long bows that are more than thirty years old. The uncle that taught me to shoot has bows that are older than me and still completely viable for whatever you want to do with them.
Wax the string regularly and it will last several seasons but is certainly cheap enough to replace every year as recommended. I've got an original string on one of those 30 yr old bows that is still serviceable. I know that's going to raise brows, but I want to see how long it'll go and while I admit no expert skill or knowledge, I have confidence in it at this point.
For stick and string bows like long bows and recurves, wood is the traditional choice. When properly sealed, they require little care, but that doesn't mean NO care. Again, I've got 30 yr old arrows that still shoot well.
The thing with wood is that they are heavier than anything modern. Carbon or aluminum. They thump harder, but drop faster. I have as much penetration on foam targets with wood out of my long bow at 180 fps as with carbon out of my compound at 270 fps.
Yes, they require more care. You've got to keep them sealed and you do have to regularly inspect or damage and retire those with cracks or gouges, etc. They flex in response to impact and are surprisingly resilient in my opinion. But they do warp in humid or wet conditions and straightening them takes skill and practice and they don't shoot or s**t until you get them straight. Wood does break easier than any of the modern materials, but often it is still usable, just shorter, and a glue on tip can be reinstalled. Other times, it breaks along the shaft in a long sort of break that takes several inches and renders it unusable.
Carbon is more forgiving and much straighter overall. That is why they advertise that plus or minus thousandths of an inch stuff. They are straight and shoot more uniformly than you will ever get wood to shoot. But they are also lighter and thus will not carry the same inertia as wood out of the same bow, particularly stick bows. They are designed around compounds, which is why they offer weighted inserts if you want to shoot them with stick bows. They are harder to break than wood, IMO, but once they do, pretty much the entire shaft if trash.
Glue on points are generally solid and reliable as long as they are properly installed. Even then, they can come loose and you have to be very particular ensuring they are installed correctly. Even an off center alignment that is invisible to the eye will cause them to fly erratically.
Screw on points, on the other hand, really only have the disadvantage of coming loose or unscrewing. A practiced hand will regularly retighten them with a simple check and twist. Or, as previously mentioned, they can be installed with a bit of locktite.
Matter of preference, but the screw on are more user friendly, IMO.
There is plenty to learn about archery, and certainly I'm still learning, but it isn't difficult really. For sure, there is too much fun to be had to pass it by. Like anything else, it is a question of just how deeply you want to go.
You can simply keep you understanding of things relatively simple and enjoy archery for the rest of your life. Or you can delve into the nitty gritty of things and enjoy archery for the rest of your life.
I'm tired, please forgive my rambling.
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Post by Onimusha on Jun 28, 2013 4:48:33 GMT
It's not really that expensive. There are a lot of production swords that cost much more than those bows. It seems even cheaper when you consider the amount of work and skill it takes to make a bow that won't snap when it is drawn. You also have to consider that a fiberglass laminated bow will most likely outlast you. I know people that have been shooting the same bow for 30 years. Those bows are still going strong. It's cheaper to shoot a bow than a gun, because arrows are reusable. A good set of carbon arrows can last decades. That's tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of shots for $60 or so. To put that in perspective, the powder for 300 rounds in my muzzleloader costs $65. That doesn't include bullet, patch, and cap. I wouldn't recommend that you collect a lot of different bows. Get one or two and learn their characteristics. Each one has a personality. Also, frankly speaking, you'll have a practical use for that bow long before your swords are pressed into service. I'll get off my soapbox now.
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Post by shoboshi on Jun 28, 2013 4:51:49 GMT
Well said, ONI.
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Post by Onimusha on Jun 28, 2013 4:57:03 GMT
Yes, those tips will work. The inserts are made of aluminum. They're light as a feather. Even if they were made of steel, they wouldn't change the spine weight enough to matter. That 3555/500 number means 35-55# spine, 500 grains. Wood arrows run in much narrower spine ranges, so things like that are more critical. I'm getting into a lot of details that weren't asked for, so I'll shut up now.
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Post by THE_SUPERWEIRDO on Jun 28, 2013 7:08:30 GMT
Hmmm... I see. I do actually just plan at the max 2 bows, but getting a second bow will be a long while. Archery seems to be a whole new thing to me, so I'll learn as much of it as I can and enjoy every moment of it. And I surely do love how bow and arrows are reusable tools, unlike what you guys say with a firearm.
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Post by THE_SUPERWEIRDO on Jun 28, 2013 7:11:35 GMT
Haha, don't shut up! :lol: I love technical details of everything, even the smallest things, it strangely makes me understand more of anything that I'm learning.
And with those tips verified, all I can do is wait and pile up some money, which won't be a long while.
Thanks for all the help!
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Post by Onimusha on Jun 28, 2013 7:31:57 GMT
Yep. Guns can outrange a bow and are more powerful, but, once you shoot a round, it's shot. The primer is spent, the powder is burned and the bullet is gone. No matter what you do, that shot costs money that you can't get back.
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Post by bigpete on Jun 28, 2013 8:17:48 GMT
Actually that 500 written on the shaft has little to do with the arrows physical weight,it is the shaft's spine deflection number. Standard black gold tip 5575 are rated at 400 SD ,7595 are rated at 340 SD,and so on. Spine deflection has to do with the amount the shaft bends from true once a certain amount of weight is hung from the middle,hence why the 3555 has a reflection of 500 while the 7595 is 340. And you can certainly use carbons out of any bow as long as you match the spine to the bow. Non centre shot bows tend to get away with weaker spined arrows,while more centre shot generally need stiffer arrows. For example my 60# horse bow from china shoots 3555 best while my 60# predator lobo prefers 5575
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Jul 2, 2013 12:49:28 GMT
Some (many) years ago I built a laminated bamboo bow - I bought an outdoor bamboo blind in a box, to discover it had no strings ie. a box of bamboo strips ( the store replaced the faulty one and allowed me to keep the box of strips. I took 4 lots of 12 strips - cut each one progressively smaller first one inch then two and so on. Glued them together on a table and wound up with four sets of stacked bamboo "bow like" objects. With a "D" like handle and two stacks each side thinking I could shoot an arrow through the middle - I could barely draw it past 18" - thinned down a little I finally go to 26". I tried for weeks to shoot dowel "arrows" from my verandah - suffice to say I grew stronger, my arrows flew further, my aim got better but in the end I still could not hit a substantial bush 25 yards away. A longbow is not for me Still it was a great bow for nothing more than time, effort and a little glue.
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Post by THE_SUPERWEIRDO on Jul 3, 2013 18:43:37 GMT
I'm pretty sure I'm the most indecisive person in the forums :?
Finding out I can maybe expand my price range for a bow and found more bows that I'm interested into. I was just researching other bows and I found the PSE Legacy Longbow. Has anybody own one, and if so, what do you think about it? And where can I get a good quality one? I can't find one anywhere that's not sold out...
All I fear in archery is a $200 or so bow breaking and all money wasted. So that's the reason of indecisiveness. :mrgreen: Sorry to ask once more about it ._.
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Post by bigpete on Jul 3, 2013 19:52:18 GMT
PSE traditional bow are OK,nothing to write home bout though,and I'm pretty sure they'd made by a Korean company called samick anyway,who makes lots of different traditional bows. Really I think your best bet is to jump on 3 Rivers website and have look at what they have in your price range,also check out Lancaster archery. Then once you've found a bow you like you can do a Google search on it to find out any faults or opinions on it. EBay seems to have a LOT of decent longbows and recurves in lighter draw weights particularly in USA so maybe a good second hand bow may be a good idea. And be aware that bows do break,but nowhere near as often as one might think,and its not always cheap ones that do it.
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Post by Onimusha on Jul 3, 2013 21:58:41 GMT
I had one of those $50 Ebay bows for 2 years. It didn't break. I had a fuse recurve that was $240. It's still in one piece. A $200 bow will serve you well, especially a laminated one made in the US. If you buy from a good, American dealer, they'll work with you. It's highly possible for a $3,000 bow to break. On a related note, I got a defective bow from that Ebay seller. The bottom limb snapped. Even though they have a no return/replacement policy, they apologized and sent me a new bow to my specifications, free of charge. That's the bow I shot for 2 years.
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Post by THE_SUPERWEIRDO on Jul 3, 2013 21:59:38 GMT
Thanks for the response!
Though I shouldn't have asked for a recommendation type of question anymore, but more of a maintenance question... :?
Like, what will I need to do to the bow to somewhat "extend the life" out of it? Like taking care of it and not making it brittle so it can't snap. All I know about bow maintenance is waxing the string
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