I've been looking around at antiques a lot the last two weeks, and I've had my eye on several eBay auctions, one of which I'm going to try for...even though it's outside my budget, I really like it.
If that one falls through, I've found a few more that I'm equally fond of, in the same neighborhood price-wise. I'm also scoping some really pretty chooras. I'll have to see if my budget pans out.
I'd entertained the idea, if I managed to acquire an antique, of grabbing the Windlass for a direct, in-hand comparison...but the more I look at antiques, the less attractive the Windlass becomes, somehow. :?
Anyway, if anything pans out I'll throw something here for giggles of nothing else. It's your collective faults for getting me into these things, after all. :evil:
Just came in the mail today, it's a monster. Huge and heavy, just how I like 'em. Threw in a 15" kukri and my 18" nagasa antique wakizashi for size comparison to this 23"-er.
I've just yesterday closed on another choora/pesh kabz thingy from a fellow in the UK; a very nice fellow, on that note. Here's his page on "my" "new" knife: www.thelastarmoury.com/daggers/i ... pesh-kabz/
Great guy to deal with, if anything there strikes anybody's fancy.
Windlass' Charay sure doesn't look like much anymore... :oops:
I don't know if I'm going to do an awful lot with that. It's an antique, after all, so the best I can do is offer it as a point of reference to others who like the style an seek to buy other antiques (if you can beat me to them, that is) and include basic stats like size and weight.
That said, if anybody's interested, I'd be more than happy to share that much. Once I get the choora, I was thinking of comparing these two to my "new to me" antique flyssa and maybe one or both of my kukris, but since thse are mostly stab-oriented weapons, a chopper like the kuk would probably make a poor point of comparison. I don't really have a lot of thrust-oriented stuff, though I've got a Gen2 Norman dagger and a Windlass "Viking Dirk"...next best is a Fairbairn-Sykes, and that's kind of a different league. :?
I honestly don't see myself buying either of the Deepeekas or the Windlass, and the Deepeeka offerings are hardly even visually representative of the type and the Windlass is still quite a long stretch off. Maybe one of the other Indian companies can convince me theirs is good enough, but until then I'll be saving for my next antique. :oops:
But if anybody is interested in stats, handling, or close-up photos of my new old toys, I'd be happy to provide.
So I've been looking again at the four production models we've managed to find, plus another I'd stumbled over, and am surprised at some of the differences I'm noting between them and the one I have.
For starters, the Windlass model is only about one inch longer than mine, bladewise, but about the same overall. that is, unless the KoA measurements are in scabbard, which I'm assuming they are not. I'm not sure what they're measuring for thickness, but my blade is completely flat all through (no taper from spine to edge bevel, no distal taper in the blade itself) but the T spine starts at 0.4", or a sliver past 10 mm, and tapers to about 0.2" or let's say 5 mm about 1.5" from the tip, which has only slightly greater taper. The Windlass model starts at 7.3 mm and goes down to 4.6 mm.
They list the width, I presume at the guard, as 53.9 mm, the one I have is right there at 53 mm.
So aside from being a good chunk thinner, albeit with less taper, it's virtually the same exact dimensions. But what gets me is, they list point of balance at 1 1/4", while mine is right at 7 1/2". That's a huge difference. I wonder if the thinner blade mixed with the fatter grip really is that significant?
My grip, by the way, is right at 1" all around, squared off at the spine and edge sides. I don't know how thick the Windlass really is, but it does look absolutely huge, so I'm inclined to take the word of [whoever it was] and believe that it is substantially oversized.
I mean, really, such identical silhouettes with such drastic differences in only balance? Weird. :?
I focus so much on the Windlass because it's the most visually similar to the examples of the type I'm finding most often, whereas the Deepeeka models look more like Khyber-inspired meat cleavers. The blades are just too wide, and the tip has too much belly in it. The examples I've seen, including the one in my lap right now, all have very evenly tapered blades, generally with a recurving spine, with an extremely acute triangular, reinforced point. Seems perfectly logical as these were designed from the beginning to defeat chain mail, while also managing the opportunity to cut when presented. The Deepeeka models, in this sense, would make pretty lousy thrusters, going by looks.
The big one comes in at a meager 18" blade, and weighs a few ounces less than the Windlass and my own example, with a balance point listing at 3 1/2". The spine seems a little skinny, but then the smaller version has a flush, flat spine. It's also half the size of the Windlass and the one I have, about half the weight, and both Deepeeka blades seem to start off at 5mm and have virtually no taper at all in either thickness or width, save that sudden upward curve at the tip. Little fella balances at 1", though, so between that and the 3.5" of the larger model, I'm not sure the "feeling" would be accurate with these, either.
The biggest killer to me on any of these models, aesthetically, is that none of them execute the tip properly. Deepeeka gives theirs a big, almost spatulate tip with lots of belly, while Windlass tapered theirs nicely...then forgot to taper the spine at the end. It's keeps that T shape the whole way. The spine on mine has tapered into nothing just as it meets the edge bevel, and this strikes me as certainly being "correct" both in form, function, and appearance. Every time I look at the tip on the Windlass, it just looks ugly and wrong.
I've seen that selling other places as a "Khyber Bowie knife," and that seems a very apt description. It's a perfect blend of the common "Bowie" and the common "Khyber" with its silhouette being reminiscent of the classical "Khyber" and its geometry being very much that of a bowie. It's got the hilt and profile taper of the Khyber knives, without the T-spine, and the edge grind and clip point of a bowie knife, without the edge belly. I have no doubt it would be a great knife, provided the manufacturing quality held out (it's so cheap!?) but it is neither a Khyber nor a Bowie...but takes from both, indeed.
I plan to acquire another antique in the next few months, once I've rebuilt my funds a bit (I literally spent just shy of $1200 on the Flyssa, this Khyber, and the choora that's in the mail now; I have $2 in the bank and $5 in my wallet; give me a while to recover. :oops: ) and see how it compares to the one I have on-hand right now. I'll also try to see if I can find more folk who have an example or two at hand who can provide measurements for me to compare to, as this balance intrigues me. I wonder if it really should be as forward as mine, but then again, it really doesn't feel that far out when you hold it, especially with your thumb resting on the shoulder of the grip slab.
Anyway, sorry to keep cluttering up this thread, but I'm quite well and truly captivated by these weapons and am eager to see what others have found on them, while sharing my own thoughts at the same time.
That said, if I had to buy one of the models at KoA, I'd say that the best bet would be the big Deepeeka. The little one is just too little, and has the wrong spine for the gig. One more thing going for either Deepeeka is they seem to be the only production offerings that feature the recessed scabbard, where part of the grip is also covered and only a small portion sticks out. This seems to be a common feature among originals, and I kind of like it. Keeps things out of the way.
Myself, though, I'll be staying in the antique market for this type, keeping my eyes on some of the stores I've found and checking eBay *cough* every now and again. I very highly doubt I will be buying any of the repros, but if I should find an opportunity to get some hands-on with one, I'll certainly be very intimate with them.
(a very rusty one without sheath just sold at auction for a mere $153.50, here: www.ebay.com/itm/Large-antique-A ... true&rt=nc so they can be found reasonably)
I hope to have another "Khyber knife" in my possession shortly, this time a big choora. The one I have now is the more swordly size at 29" overall and 23" blade, the other is definitely the dagger version but a very large example at 22" overall with a blade just over 14". The average of the dozen or so I've seen so far is closer to 8-10" blade and 12-15 overall.
Don't remember if I've shown that one, but until I get it(been in the mail from the UK since Wednesday, any day now), it can be seen here: www.thelastarmoury.com/daggers/i ... pesh-kabz/
This one is more in line, size-wise, with the Deepeeka offerings, but the Deepeekas would compare even less favorably in blade shape if they were going for this style of knife. :x
Timberwolf wrote Random, That is some cool info and even cooler toys.
Striderfly, That is the "sirupate" style of khukuri. I think I'll wind up with a few ...
Thank you. So I don't see the Sirupate style that much in the tactical or "modern" selection. Why doesn't Cold Steel or someone do one? Instead they seem to focus on the Gurkha type. I think that Tibetan Sirupate would be a prime candidate for updating.
These certainly look much more the part than the photos now listing on KoA, but if these are the older models then I wonder which version they have in stock currently...and which any order would receive. I know if I ordered from them and received the wider, deeper-bellied form I would be very upset. The model numbers are identical, so I am quite perplexed.
Sorry for the double post, but I just got in my second "Khyber knife," this time the smaller, dagger variant. Here's a quick shot of the two together, I'll get more specs etc. later if there's interest.
Edit: Yikes, that's a big picture. Oh well. :oops:
Dang, Random! That new knife is wicked, looks like it'd slide right through chain mail. And don't think that pic is too big, it shows up perfectly on my monitor.
Striderfly, Some things you should know right away: The Khukuri House measures their knives the way the rest of the world does, by blade length. It's simple to compare them to anything else.
However, Himilayan Imports gives you the OVERALL length, for a few silly reasons. So, when you want to know how big their khukuris really are, you need to blow up your screen (Ctrl+), take your plastic ruler, measure overall (cm are easier to calculate), figure your conversion, measure the blade alone from center of bolster to tip, and finally multiply by your conversion factor. THEN you'll know how big the HI kuk is by normal standards.
Yeah, a real PITA, but it's easy after you do a few. Back to the "20 inch sirupate", it's really 13.5" or so. :?
On the KH side, all the "actual weights" they list are really knife AND sheath, so you have to figure them a little lighter, leather doesn't weigh much. I heard they are going to start listing knife weights alone very soon.
KH and HI are the 2 big kids on the block, so you really don't need to look at anything else. American made stuff is AWFUL! ToraBlades makes some good ones, but I've been hearing their QC really sucks. There's more to be considered, so don't jump right in and blow $100-$200 unless you can afford it. Not that you could ever go wrong with either, but there's a lot of details under the radar.
I could say a lot more, Random knows I've been researching kuks for a while now. But I've already jacked this thread hard enough!
To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting. - Sun Tzu
It weighs in at a meager 11.5 oz, despite being 18" long. The cutting edge is 13" and one can tell was once immensely sharp, though it's rolled over. I, uh...kind of fiddled with that a bit, and now it's mostly straight again and parts are near hair-popping. Balances right at the choil (closest word I can find for it, though it's not exact) and tracks too easily. :shock:
Strider: Timber there brings up some good points on kuk measures. If you have any questions there, many of us here in the Knives & Daggers subforum are quite fond of kuks and would be happy to help.
I'm still shopping for these Khybers...I need to stop. :oops:
I'm in love with these knives. I spend practically every moment of my spare time watching some of the dealers I've found and waiting for good deals to pop up. I'm trying to save about $750 or so for one that just looks incredible, with a few inches on mine, while wondering if I shouldn't save a bit more for the slightly shorter wootz model at the same seller...
Meantime I've found one that's fairly tempting at only about $320-ish and a smallish dagger variant for $135.
I need to find some contact in the area where these are still made and see what one could get a new one for...
But yeah, these are crazy intimidating weapons. I'm figuring out how one could manipulate them vet quickly and with a good deal of precision, and the more time I spend playing around with them, the more I fear being on the other end of sometime who actually knows what they're doing with one. :shock:
stormmaster: theres a piece out there i want but cannot afford, quite sad
Feb 23, 2020 19:34:30 GMT
christain: Nothing new coming for me either. But...spring is just around the corner, and that means 5 and 6 day work-weeks. Already have a few things on my list.
Feb 23, 2020 1:26:52 GMT
ouroboros: No new sword for Ouro this month 🤪
Feb 22, 2020 16:04:31 GMT
ouroboros: 33F/1C...despite the lack of negative sign...its cold where I dwell...the deadline for my employers lawyer to get back to me has passed 18hrs ago
Feb 22, 2020 15:49:06 GMT
legacyofthesword: LK Chen swords arrived yesterday. Review incoming (hopefully I'll have it done this weekend).
Feb 22, 2020 5:41:39 GMT
ouroboros: No...have you? (Hahaha I know what wifey n i will watch tonight...Alien and Aliens)
Feb 21, 2020 1:44:52 GMT
RufusScorpius: Hey, Ouro, you even been mistaken for a man?
Feb 21, 2020 1:14:33 GMT
ouroboros: Hahaha twas only a poor attempt at Aliens humor
Feb 21, 2020 0:43:58 GMT
christain: DO IT! My armor is radiation-proof. Also, I have a source for Astro-Turf. Problem solved. .........
Feb 21, 2020 0:12:42 GMT
ouroboros: I say we take off and nuke the whole site from orbit--it's the only way to be sure
Feb 20, 2020 23:21:21 GMT
RufusScorpius: Satellite GPS plot of Christain's property, enter into the Automatic Geometry Guidance and resurface and re-slope his entire property. Then spray it with that green seed mix from a high pressure hose. Should take 20 minutes for the whole job.
Feb 20, 2020 23:19:11 GMT
RufusScorpius: Oh man, you let slip my gimmick. And I was going to do it by remote piloting using GPS data mapping
Feb 20, 2020 23:15:36 GMT
treeslicer: Rufus, why do I get this picture of you, in armor, driving some piece of air-conditioned heavy equipment you borrowed from the local railroad, scraping Christain's lawn down to bare dirt, then scattering gravel ballast all over it?
Feb 20, 2020 23:11:27 GMT
RufusScorpius: I made you a promise I would cut your grass in armor and I fully intend to keep it. I just can't promise a time. But it's gonna happen.
Feb 20, 2020 11:28:49 GMT
christain: I think Spring is gonna come early this year, so there'll be plenty of time for mower-jousting.
Feb 20, 2020 8:46:00 GMT
christain: Come and help me MOW my grass in your Roman gear!-------
Feb 20, 2020 8:38:25 GMT
RufusScorpius: Primarily for MOW. Operator training, mechanics, track structure and geometry, hydraulics, electric, PLC, and so forth.
Feb 20, 2020 2:22:01 GMT
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