Greg
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Post by Greg on Nov 29, 2012 0:58:35 GMT
Ok, so I'm hesitant to believe this vid. The archer never actually shows us how he shoots so fast, he only shows us how other cultures had shot fast.
Anyone have any input?
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on Nov 29, 2012 1:10:54 GMT
If he's for real...this will upset a crapload of Scholars who think they know their theories "have " to be right.
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Nov 29, 2012 1:21:46 GMT
Dude used a ridiculous amount of Feats to do all that. Pretty sure there were a few levels of Fighter in there for the Bonus Feats they get.
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Post by Tendrax on Nov 29, 2012 1:41:59 GMT
Look like he is holding all of them in his drawing hand snap shooting them at about 1/4 draw. I'd imagine it is awkward as hell but clearly can get fast with practice. What I doubt is the power behind it. The super fast shots are not full draw, the shots that hit the chainmail are slower and at full draw. Albeit from a weird shooting position.
I think it's real, but portrayed falsely, and again, shooting that fast isn't practical for anything. Even in combat I don't think it'd be practical. Even in modern combat with automatic rifles it's generally considered better to take slow(ish) well aimed shots then just spray a mag at someone and hope a round hits him. Lol.
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Nov 29, 2012 1:43:39 GMT
I appreciate the geek reference, I laughed... but I'm sad that you will never get laid.
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Post by Tendrax on Nov 29, 2012 1:57:21 GMT
What also got me was the "Shooting at half draw and low like in the old art". Because tapestries and vases are never incorrect about anything, ever. They can't be. No way.
As far as I'm concerned it's like watching The Expendables 300 years from now and assuming that was how we actually fought in the 21st century. :lol:
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Aaron
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Post by Aaron on Nov 29, 2012 2:23:47 GMT
Eh, not disagreeing with the thought that art then could be wrong, but "art" then is not the same as "art" now. In the past few centuries, we've seen art done for art's sake, it's more of an expression of the artist. "Art" in the medieval era was done to educate those who could not read, like peasants. So it kind of had to be at least pretty fairly accurate.
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on Nov 29, 2012 2:34:11 GMT
Ah...but you forget the mass fire battlefield feat...to bury the opponent in arrows. I mean 2K arrows wolud ruin even a high levels day....
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Post by Tendrax on Nov 29, 2012 3:09:37 GMT
While it's certainly not ridiculously over the top, it still only has to convey a basic idea of what went down, not the crazy specifics of how people actually fought in that time. It's good enough for passing on history to draw a dude standing there with a bow without making sure he's holding the bow 100% correctly. Regardless, even if it's not just for arts sake, it's still art, not a history text book. If the artist thought it looked better or fit in his picture better that's how he drew it. Cause that wouldn't be accomplished better by multiple archers shooting from full draw.
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Post by ineffableone on Nov 29, 2012 3:44:28 GMT
Here is my question, what poundage bow is he using to shoot with, and how effective will it really be? I know of the other 4 fast archers, the Russian girl Iza Privezenceva shoots a very low poundage bow. Something around 25 lbs, not a higher poundage that is useful for hunting and combat.
I think also one would need to try using the historical arrows and bows of the cultures your claiming did this. Rather than a modern recurve bow and modern arrows. If your saying this is the way ancient people did it, then show us with the bows and arrows they would have been using.
Now I do have to say, I am very likely going to try practicing this and see how it works with a 50# recurve. I have a feeling I might have different results.
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Nov 29, 2012 4:06:16 GMT
It's not the D&D that keeps me from getting laid as I haven't been able to find a group since the 3.5 days ( ), it's the fact that I'm old, fat, and ugly now! D&D got me laid before, it's one of the perks of being the DM/GM. Cleric for life!
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Post by RHVette on Nov 29, 2012 4:09:56 GMT
I believe it mentioned using a 25# and 30# bow at the end of the video. Combined with the short draw, I'd bet he's barely hitting the 20# mark.
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on Nov 29, 2012 5:12:35 GMT
So...30ish lb draw...if his aim is good he could be mowing down legions of lawn gnomes. I wonder if there is ballistic data vs the draw weight / lethality? Against an unarmored mob of peasants...this might be highly effective. Lethal...doubtful...but demoralizing. Thoughts?
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SanMarc
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Post by SanMarc on Nov 29, 2012 6:21:17 GMT
Slay the Evil Lawn Gnomes!!!!!
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Post by Ceebs on Nov 29, 2012 6:47:32 GMT
That seems to be all it's good for with a bow that weak. In order to keep 11 arrows in the air he had a very steep trajectory which hampers range. If he had a period bow of appropriate draw weight (around 100 pounds or more for a "turkish" bow I believe?) then I'd be mightily impressed. The guy's theory is viable, but hampered by by that ridiculously low draw weight. Also, any part of the arrow that isn't drawn is merely dead weight, an inefficient method of shooting as far as power/range is concerned.
As for period art, we can't dismiss it completely but we have to take into account artistic conventions of the period alongside the motives/methods of the people making said art. Were the positions of the bows in the Bayeaux Tapestry due to the makers being clued up on Norman Archery? Or was it hard to weave a 'draw to the face' picture without it looking like the archer was puking out an arrow?
Friggin Gnomes man...
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Nov 29, 2012 7:19:04 GMT
Mithril ?
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Post by Tendrax on Nov 29, 2012 8:30:18 GMT
This. Much clearer way to make the point I was trying to. Thank you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2012 11:38:02 GMT
Ineff is right, seen guys at the archery club do 'speed shooting' on recurves, low poundage bow, partial draw, and quiver slung on back. not really practical, more a show of skill if they are accurately hitting bullseyes on the target while doing it.
In medieval warfare, 'clout shoting' to achieve massed volleys of arrows was carried our with very high poundage warbows, drawn to full draw, aimed at 45 degrees or so for maximum range, and timed carefully, but exectued fairly quickly - acieving 8-10 arrows a minute, that's one shot every 6 seconds at best!
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Greg
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Post by Greg on Nov 29, 2012 17:29:49 GMT
I'm sorry, but there seems to be the thought that a 20lb shooting weight doesn't do anything. But a bodkin at 20lbs is still enough to get to a vital organ or two. At the very least, it would be enough to scare off an angry mob.
I just don't see how this guy can hold 11 arrows in one hand and still shoot. If anyone has any insight onto how they are held, please chime in.
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Post by Elheru Aran on Nov 29, 2012 18:03:43 GMT
This. Three arrows I can buy; not that hard to tuck two in between your fingers and shoot another, especially if you're shooting Asian-style with a thumb ring as I think he is. Eleven? No. He may be holding extra arrows in his off hand along with the bow, but then he has to pull them out and nock them somehow in a split-second. You could do that with a normal field point or a bodkin, but you aren't going to do that with an edged arrowhead, not without either letting go of a single arrow at a time (not sure how practical that is, I'd think you'd be dropping the lot), or cutting the fingers up by pulling the head through them.
I see it as quite possible that low-draw bows could have been used historically-- not everybody would have been able to afford a bow with heavier draw, but honestly, in the cultures he's talking about (Saracen, Arab, etc), complex bows were quite common and those tended to be pretty heavy draw weight. Firing a lot of arrows in such a short time with a bow at, say, 50#, would be quite another matter from 20#. You don't want just power, you want the ability to go long, and a 20# is just not going to reach as far as a 50#.
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