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Zorro
Oct 4, 2012 11:07:30 GMT
Post by aussie-rabbit on Oct 4, 2012 11:07:30 GMT
quote " The researchers at Albion Swords Ltd. have developed this design as both an authentic and romantic commemoration of the 90th Anniversary of El Zorro®, based on extensive research on the period immediately before and during Zorro’s® heroic defense of the people of California. " filmswords.com/zorro/90th-annive ... -zorro.htm I'm sorry but the Albion sword seems to be a mishmash of swords from the period, as much as Zoro was a nobleman he would not have used a sword that could be traced, ergo it would have been a quality working Spanish rapier.
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Zorro
Oct 4, 2012 12:00:38 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2012 12:00:38 GMT
A colichemarde? I always thought of Zorro using a cutting rapier...
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Zorro
Oct 4, 2012 12:22:57 GMT
Post by aussie-rabbit on Oct 4, 2012 12:22:57 GMT
Yes, a basket hilt light cutting rapier.
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Zorro
Oct 4, 2012 13:24:26 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2012 13:24:26 GMT
Precisely! Do you know of any decent basket hilt light cutting rapiers, I've always wanted one. Every kid who ever watched Zorro really wanted a sword just like he used.
My Hanwei Solingen swept hilt rapier looks nice to me, but it just doesn't cut it, pardon the pun, it's a pure thruster.
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Zorro
Oct 4, 2012 14:07:20 GMT
Post by Elheru Aran on Oct 4, 2012 14:07:20 GMT
I'm fairly sure almost all the Zorro swords have just been prettied-up smallsword types, or short rapiers. Film swordsmanship (with pointy-stabbies at least) is generally closer to smallsword or foil fencing than true rapier. Even the Antonio Banderas movies, although they gave a nod to destreza (Spanish rapier style), still showed him using a smallsword. I thought this might have come from one of the early Zorro movies with Fairbanks, but I suppose I'm off base on that one... anyway, my guess is Albion is just keeping up the smallsword heritage of the films and not really worrying about the *actual* historical accuracy
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Zorro
Oct 4, 2012 17:05:36 GMT
Post by aussie-rabbit on Oct 4, 2012 17:05:36 GMT
A quick look on google images using Zorro + Fairbanks produces "Search About 63,500 results (0.22 seconds)" Almost all of them have Zorro with a fencing foil type blade.
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Zorro
Oct 4, 2012 20:11:01 GMT
Post by Judosailor on Oct 4, 2012 20:11:01 GMT
I believe that is more of a fencing sabre.
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Zorro
Oct 4, 2012 23:07:29 GMT
Post by Anders on Oct 4, 2012 23:07:29 GMT
The closest actual fighting sword I've seen to the "classic" Zorro sword would be the Spanish Puerto Seguro-type cavalry saber: But that would be kind of a major anachronism, by something like a hundred years, I think. As for the Albion sword, it's kind of overdone, but then again you don't really want to make the Commemorative Anniversary Sword of Zorro something run-of-the-mill. The point, if you will excuse the pun, wasn't to make the weapon Zorro is definitely most likely to have used but rather make a fancy and unique collector's sword as an homage to the character.
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Zorro
Oct 4, 2012 23:20:49 GMT
Post by Dave Kelly on Oct 4, 2012 23:20:49 GMT
Seems like Hollywood prefered sabers while Guy Williams used an Epee. As mentioned, in that period there was a tendency to use fencing blades.
Zorro is a 1919 American dime novel fiction.
A real Zorro in California would have existed in the period 1770-1810. No rapiers then. Small swords, Broad Swords, Hangers and Backswords and Sabers.
Albion got it wrong, from a purley historical perspective.
References for the period are two old Stackpole Pubs:
Spanish Military Weapons in Colonial America 1700-1821, Sydney Brinckerhoff and Pierce Chamberlin
Swords and Blades of the American Revolution, George C Neumann
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Zorro
Oct 5, 2012 1:40:22 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2012 1:40:22 GMT
Thanks Dave, always a great source of knowledge! I have a 'double-wide' epee blade sharpened to a fine point mounted on an old Popinjay smallsword hilt, looks very similar to the hollywod blade (dufferent hilt obviously). Incidentally, do you know of any worthwhile light cutting rapiers from any period that are fairly affordable? Is the Windlass Musketeer Rapier ( www.kultofathena.com/product.asp ... eer+Rapier) a decent blade for the money?
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Zorro
Oct 5, 2012 2:40:58 GMT
Post by Dave Kelly on Oct 5, 2012 2:40:58 GMT
Windlass blade would do it, but it's a heavy cup hilt. I haven't actually handled any of the Windlass simple guards. Not sure if there is enough blade.
The Windlass 30 Years War Saxon only has a 33 inch blade, but it has brilliant balance and an excellent blade. My chief complaint in the review was the sub par plastic grip they slopped on (badly in my case). 'couse, that was just a good excuse for sending it to Sunny Suttles for a glorious refit.
How 'bout a WEI Spadroon? Oversized for a small sword, and an able cutter with a decent edge put on the blade.
FWIW
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Zorro
Oct 5, 2012 3:58:05 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2012 3:58:05 GMT
I saw the pics of your WEI Spadroon Dave, tried looking it up for more information, who manufactures this sword? Thanks
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Zorro
Oct 5, 2012 4:20:30 GMT
Post by aussie-rabbit on Oct 5, 2012 4:20:30 GMT
Washington Fencing Sword SH2325
Overall Length: 44 1/2" Sword Weight: 1 lb. 13 oz Blade Length: 34 1/2" Blade Material: High-carbon forged steel blade Handle Material: Ribbed leather handle, turks head knots Handle Length: 4" Excellent handling and balance Authentic styling Factory: CAS Hanwei Designer: Paul Chen Rated: Fully Functional
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Zorro
Oct 5, 2012 4:36:47 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2012 4:36:47 GMT
Looks nice, I like it, classical smallsword, but this doesn't cut or poke, it's got an epee blade on that with a standard (blunt) button tip, no edges though.
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Zorro
Oct 5, 2012 9:25:26 GMT
Post by Dave Kelly on Oct 5, 2012 9:25:26 GMT
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Zorro
Oct 5, 2012 11:56:23 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2012 11:56:23 GMT
Thanks!
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Zorro
Oct 6, 2012 2:41:10 GMT
Post by Larry Jordan on Oct 6, 2012 2:41:10 GMT
Of course this is Tyrone Power from the "Mark of Zorro".
These do appear to be sport-like sabers, but the guard seems larger. Earlier in the film the young Diego is in Spain, training with some regiment, and he is equipped with a [heavier] saber that Dave Kelly could identify. It has a straight guard (not a basket) which he sticks in the cantina's ceiling "until he returns."
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Zorro
Oct 6, 2012 21:36:06 GMT
Post by Dave Kelly on Oct 6, 2012 21:36:06 GMT
Not recognizably Spanish. Look German. Like, maybe they production crew went to wardrobe looking for 30 sabers of same type for the school scene and robbed the old Fairbanks "Prisoner of Zenda" inventory... Napoleonic Spain used a lot of English supplied equipment. Post War Spain went French in style from 1816-1860 then German.
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Zorro
Oct 7, 2012 0:35:52 GMT
Post by MrAcheson on Oct 7, 2012 0:35:52 GMT
Honestly I mostly remember Zorro using light sabers or epees. Not sure what the Disney TV show used, but the old Family Channel show used a light fencing saber. The current Hanwei Hutton Saber probably wouldn't be far off.
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Zorro
Oct 8, 2012 15:18:30 GMT
Post by Larry Jordan on Oct 8, 2012 15:18:30 GMT
A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...
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