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Post by jcbarnett on Jul 22, 2012 20:33:17 GMT
I have a beautiful Persian Shamshir with a fantastic serpentine blade, rams horn grip and german silver scabbard. The scabbard is nicely engraved and the sword is sharp with a makers mark on the blade. The sword dates back to the 1800's. It does not appear to have a wootz steel blade but I keep seeing apparent patterns in the steel that make me wonder. It is very finely laminated steel with extremely subtle patterning. The scabbard is metal and tends to create a lot of scratches on the blade - but you can see better in the closeups below. The patterns are not really visible until you look closely and have the right lighting. I modified the contrast and saturation of one blade photo to help draw out the pattern. Most all wootz blades I have seen are quite pronounced so I have my doubts it is wootz. Any wootz or laminated steel experts out there care to help me with this blade? How was this blade constructed and is it a form of wootz steel or just lamination patterns? Thanks!
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Post by ineffableone on Jul 22, 2012 23:54:37 GMT
Check out this 17th century Shamshir made with wootz damascus steel. antiques-arms.com/sold-antique-indo-persian-sword-shamshir-damascus-steel-wootz-es348 or another here antiques-arms.com/rare-antique-turkish-ottoman-sword-kilij-with-17th-century-blade-damascus-steel-wootz-es573 Much of the pattern is subtle. Part of your trouble telling if yours is or isn't might be the rough condition of the metal a smoother more polished surface might being out the pattern or lack of pattern more. 18th century Shamshir were known to have wootz damascus blades so it is a possible metal for yours. Now I am not suggesting you polish your blade up, that could ruin the antique value of it, but suggesting it might be wootz damascus under that scratching. It might be worth it to take it to an expert to get an in person look at that steel and a recommendation. An example of the 17th century Shamshir linked above. See how subtle the pattern is, yet this was identified as a true wootz damascus blade.
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Post by jcbarnett on Jul 23, 2012 0:55:13 GMT
Thanks ineffableone - that first link you provided has some photos of a very subtle pattern that is quite similar to the enhanced photo I did. I know when I played with the photo enhancement of the blade some more I got even more of what appears to be the underlying pattern. And when you hold it to the light just right you can see a wavy pattern to the steel that almost looks like its just below the surface. I am reluctant to polish the blade - but the metal is pretty well scratched up and it may be worth it.
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Post by ineffableone on Jul 23, 2012 1:05:25 GMT
An antique blade you don't want to polish yourself. The value of it can be seriously reduced by doing so. This is why I recommended taking it to an expert first. If you look at the value of the 2nd blade $12,000.00 you can see why you might not want to mess yours up. Now I am not saying yours is worth that much, but I do know antique swords should be left in their found condition (maybe oiled but no more) until you can get a competent appraisal of the piece. An experienced antique sword restorer would cost quite a bit of $ most likely, but it is likely you can find some decent place to examine it and give you a recommendation on it for a reasonable price.
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Post by jcbarnett on Jul 23, 2012 1:23:19 GMT
Definately good advice - don't think I am going to mess with polishing it personally. It is a very nice piece that is probably worth more than what I paid for it. I picked it up from a elderly fellow who paid the equivalant of $600 US back in the 1950's when he was in Iran. He is in his 90's now and I had helped him dispose of his firearms collection. He had this sword in his possession for over 60 years. He sold it to me for only a bit more than what he had originally paid for it - more as grattitude for what I had done for him - but he also knew I fell in love with it - and he knew I wouldn't sell it - which probably helped.
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Post by ineffableone on Jul 23, 2012 1:37:59 GMT
It is a beautiful sword, and a great collection piece. Antique Road Show is coming to Seattle in Aug 18th, if you could get down here from Alaska for it you might get a chance to check with them on it's value and more importantly it's history. From what I understand tickets are free, but you have to preorder them to get in the show. www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/ontheroad.html*edit, I just saw that the deadline for ordering tickets for the Seattle Antique Road Show was in April so looks like you would not be able to get in on that, sorry.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2012 1:43:25 GMT
Your blade has the characteristics of crucible steel. What you can do with magnification is to look for the dendrites and tree formations. This would be considered of the wootz family, without being further manipulated to produce a specific pattern. Sometimes regarded as low resolution wootz or bulat. NIce piece.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2012 1:45:36 GMT
Oh, if you plan to polish at all, do not use papers or stones but rather fie sand and olive oil.. Go lightly.
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Post by jcbarnett on Jul 23, 2012 2:32:57 GMT
Thanks Edelweiss !
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Sept 24, 2012 10:45:29 GMT
Please don't until you have had it appraised
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