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Post by chrisperoni on Jul 1, 2012 0:03:56 GMT
that's a classic recurve- very nice looking indeed. I love the fluid lines- very attractive
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Post by caferacer on Jul 1, 2012 0:26:06 GMT
yea there is always risk with something old, I guess that is part of what I like about older things, and all the new bows I liked were $300+ guess I am just going to have to trust this is a good one you are absolutely right about old bows, one of the ones I tried out today snapped clean in half after less than a dozen shot's it was a Bear Grizzly 56" 45LBS bottom limb broke off as I drew it back! (it was one of the cheapest used bows they had and a bit beat up) the one I got is in far better shape (I hope)
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Post by ineffableone on Jul 1, 2012 1:56:12 GMT
Glad to hear you got your bow, funny that you ended back with a Tigercat. Bear does make good bows, and the Tigercat does have a good rep. Sounds like you had a bit of experience with why we suggested getting any old bow checked out by an expert or going new bow when that Griz snapped on you, hope you weren't hurt by it. The Bear Grizzly is a good bow also with a good reputation, it sounds like that one just had some issues due to improper storage or use.
I am glad they threw in a glove, stringer, and arrow into the sale.
Arrows can be a tough thing and can be very much up to personal taste. I personally prefer wood arrows. Some prefer carbon, and some aluminum. At the beginning of carbon arrow introduction they were considered dangerous for traditional bows, but the problems with them were corrected and work fine now. Since all 3 have good and bad about them, I would suggest you try out each type and see what might be your preference. Arrow selection and spine weights are some of the most complicated stuff in archery. Honestly it had me reconsidering getting into archery when I first started exploring it. But it does start to make sense eventually, just keep at it. One thing though since your shooting off the shelf is that you will need to make sure your shooting real feathers, the artificial vanes don't work well with shooting off the shelf.
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Post by chrisperoni on Jul 1, 2012 2:29:45 GMT
tru dat!
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Taran
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Post by Taran on Jul 1, 2012 3:04:01 GMT
Bear makes nice bows. I just find them to be very heavy in the hand for no noticeable gain or reason. Not the pull, but the weight of the bow itself tends to be excessive. Of course, my real issue is probably the flat limbs. One of them explodes in your face, you start getting antsy, you know? Take care of your bow and you shouldn't have that issue, especially with a Bear.
You will find in a hurry that Carbon arrows are your least expensive, quality option. Even compared to making the arrows yourself. They are VERY much tougher than aluminum or wood, don't bend or take sets or creases, don't tend to break at all (though they will split if you hit something that is too hard like stone or metal) and there are far more options to find what shoots best for you. I also like the composite carbon/aluminum arrows, but that's mostly just for the weight. Spend some time going through their used arrow bin at $1 or 2 an arrow and find what you like. Also, start with longer arrowns at 32 or 33 inches. You WILL screw up and how often that damages your arrows and how badly depends larger on the range set-up, but you Will occasionally hit targets that force your tip into your shaft. The longer starting lengths mean you don't have to get new arrows every time you have to cut half an inch or a whole inch off the end. It save a LOT of money fast for a beginner.
Don't try for perfect shots, just try to get the technique down for now.
I very much prefer real feathers in 4inch lengths, but the standard is 3inch and artificial feathers are not bad. Vanes are crap, though. Don't worry about helical or offset or any of that. As a beginner, just get straight set fletchings.
Arrow weight is a personal preference. The lighter the arrow, the faster and flatter it flies. And with a low-power bow like yours, you don't even have to worry much about the dangers of going too light (too light an arrow is just like dry-firing and possibly the most damaging thing you can do to a bow (best way to make it explode in your face)). I would say be careful not to go too high, but arrow manufacturers just don't make heavy arrows much anymore, so no real worries there. Good Luck, if you want to go over 500 grains total weight. Just getting there takes serious research and money, let alone going beyond it. I concur with the 100Gr tip, though. At 38#, you don't need more to balance your arrow or to increase overall weight. But 125Gr won't hurt. An 85Gr tip wouldn't be bad, either, really. So, whatever you like.
The most important thing with arrows for a beginner is spine weight and making sure they are balanced tip to tip. Anything else is just comfort. Once you get the shooting technique down, Then you start working on the rest of the arrow (fine tuning length, weight, fletching type/shape/style/design), so don't go out and spend a whole lot of money on arrows for awhile. Doesn't matter how good your arrows are, if your technique is bad, your arrows will fly poorly.
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Post by chrisperoni on Jul 1, 2012 4:45:27 GMT
changing the length of your arrow affects the spine of it, as well as the flight and how it comes off the bow.
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Post by caferacer on Jul 1, 2012 12:33:46 GMT
arrows are more complicated than bow's?!?!?! AAAUUUGGGHHH!!!! :shock: :evil: :twisted: :geek: :ugeek: for now my criteria is cheap and functional, the arrow equivalent of a box of .38 wad cutters for my .357 I have been told to avoid the cheap fiberglass arrows they sell at wallyworld and department store chains :?:
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Post by chrisperoni on Jul 1, 2012 13:53:19 GMT
fiberglass ones (often just called glass ones - but to me a glass arrow is a cool arrow in Morrowind ) are too weak for your bow and not safe at all- they will shatter from the force of your bow. Not suitable for anything over 20lbs I'd guess.
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Post by caferacer on Jul 1, 2012 23:45:56 GMT
well I went out to the range today with my new bow and single arrow :!: they were nice enough to pick out a few arrows from the lost and found box for me to use, now I had four arrows of various materials, and dimensions, cool! at least I had something to shoot, I decided it would be a good idea to start out at the quarry, (4 targets set at incrementally farther distances) 1st target, 4 hits, no bulls eyes, but no misses, (remember I shot archery for one summer 35 plus years ago, and until this weekend that is the last time I have used a bow) next target 3 hits one miss, hmm try that one again, 4 hits! ok, getting better try again 4 hits, 4 hits, ok next target YES 4 hits! I looked at the final and farthest target and thought to my self, think I'll wait until I get some matching arrows for this one, so off to the main course I went bow in hand and 4 mix matched arrows, arriving at the first target (a ram set on a ledge of a cliff) I thought yea right :shock: next target, follow the signs along the trail I came to a large beaver up an incline, nice hill behind it, no place to loose an arrow (important as 3 of the 4 are not mine) 2 hits one miss, not bad I think, (at this point I decided to just use the three best arrows as the 4th was very raggedy with almost no feathers left on it) the next few targets went well getting 2 out of 3 hits on many of them, the raggedy arrow did come in handy a couple of times, first shot, to high, second shot to low, third one should do it, damn so close, just missed it, OK raggedy arrow your my only hope, zing thud! HIT :!: way to go raggedy arrow :mrgreen: I finished the course as the heat was beginning to take it's tole on me (96 today) they have two courses each with 15 stations, I will try the other one next time when it is a bit cooler and with some NEW arrows
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LeMal
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Post by LeMal on Jul 2, 2012 2:00:51 GMT
Uh, actually untrue. Fiberglass arrows have been made in all spines, and if they are "weak" somebody should tell AMS that all their fishing arrows are so. They actually were quite common up to the mid-70s or so. The problem with fiberglass is that it's heavy (which is why fiberglass arrows never went out of fashion in bowfishing, where trajectory isn't much of an issue).
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Post by ineffableone on Jul 2, 2012 4:00:56 GMT
So you got a chance to try some different arrows, what did you like best? I wouldn't take one course through with mix matched arrows as a final choice of arrow material but I am curious what material of that bunch you preferred.
The course sounds like a nice 3d course. Much more fun I think than the ranged targets but the ranged targets are a good practice to work on form and precision.
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Post by chrisperoni on Jul 2, 2012 4:04:30 GMT
I stand corrected. I guess I was thinking about the cheapo kind for sale on ebay etc.
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LeMal
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Post by LeMal on Jul 2, 2012 4:13:10 GMT
Fair enough--and you are indeed right that, just as with any other arrow, one should still know whether the spine is sufficient!
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Sam H
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Post by Sam H on Jul 2, 2012 19:00:32 GMT
Its very true. Make sure to match the spine of your arrow to your bow. Make sure its within 5-10lbs of the draw weight. If you find your arrows flying a bit to the left your spine is probably too heavy. If your arrows are flying a bit to the right your spine is too light. This is what was taught to me when I learned to shoot a bow and over time I've learned it to be true.
I've also had the chance to see what happens when an arrow of far too light a spine is shot from a heavy bow. There was a guy at a shoot that was right next to me who shot a wooden arrow that was spined for a 30lb bow from a 75lb recurve. The arrow literally exploded just a few feet after leaving the bow.
Fiberglass arrows are fine and have many uses however for target shooting they're not the best option you have. Personally I prefer carbon arrows. However many people who go the completely traditional route prefer port orford cedar. I've also had great experiences with bamboo arrows too.
Be aware of the condition of your arrows too. As your arrows degrade over time the consistency of their flight can be adversely affected. Keep them in good condition and check your arrows often. If they start to get warped and/or cracked replace them immediately. If your fletching is going bad re-fletch asap.
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Post by chrisperoni on Jul 2, 2012 20:14:42 GMT
Sam's referencing right handed shooting above (I think).
Here's a cool video showing you what happens to an arrow when it leaves the bow, and what happens when it's the wrong arrow:
It's titled Archers Paradox - however this term has come to mean something different from its original meaning. It's supposed to refer to the situation in shooting arrows whereby you have to aim just over from your target in order to hit it-- the paradox of not actually aiming where you want to hit. Nowadays it's come to also mean the 'crazyness' that happens to an arrow when it leaves a bow--- all the bending and such that the arrow goes through before straightening back out.
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Post by caferacer on Jul 3, 2012 2:27:21 GMT
I have watched a few videos and read a bit about "archers paradox" very interesting subject, and have been getting an overload of info on arrows, so I just picked the ones that looked cool! there is a stick bow shoot tomorrow night and I would like to go, so I needed some arrows quick! I got a half dozen goldtip carbon 3555 in traditional wood grain full length with 100 gr tip (he will swap out 125 tip if I want) the opinion of most people I have talked to is that carbon holds up better than aluminum and they were only $5 more a 1/2 dozen plus I like the faux wood grain (I know it is a bit cheesy but what the hey) so should I stick with the 100 gr tip or try the 125 gr? I am hoping that some consistent arrows will help me achieve some consistent accuracy (combined with a bit of practice) :mrgreen:
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LeMal
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Post by LeMal on Jul 3, 2012 4:46:54 GMT
Hey, man, as long as the arrows are properly spined for your bow weight and matched, with matched points, you'll be fine. "Consistency" is just what the word means: quality materials and matched. That's all. As for 100 vs 125gr, are you planning on hunting? That would give you your guidance: use the same weight field point as your broadheads. But if you're not a hunter, there is no magic to either; that's why they manufacture both! Just don't switch up too haphazardly--and don't mix both types in the same session, or you won't know if it's you or the differences in arrows if you're not grouping well. Over the course of time, while staying consistent in any given session, maybe you'll find occasion to try the other weight tip. And maybe you'll like it better, and maybe you won't. But concerns over either being "right" is hair-splitting at this stage and jumping the gun. Don't overthink your equipment at this stage. (Excess worry just throws you off! )
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Post by caferacer on Jul 4, 2012 1:40:38 GMT
note to self an indoor range without AC during a heatwave is a BAD idea! I did learn a good bit, so it was worth it
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Taran
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Posts: 2,621
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Post by Taran on Jul 4, 2012 10:03:45 GMT
True, but going from 32" to 30" at approx 300-400 Grains with a 125Gr or less tip is not going to affect the spine significantly. You Will see the difference, but for a beginner, it's not a big deal. It's the difference between a 6" group and a 10inch group.
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Sam H
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Post by Sam H on Jul 4, 2012 22:11:34 GMT
Whatever weight arrowhead you choose make sure you choose that weight every time you get new arrows or replace heads. As was stated consistency is the key here. If your arrows are of different weights that'll affect your point of impact (POI) vs. your point of aim (POA).
You need to make sure that your POI to POA relationship remains the same each and every time you loose an arrow.
Of course archery (especially with primitive/traditional equipment) is not easy. You need to make sure you have a consistent draw length, a consistent point to draw to (not just in length but in vertical and lateral placement too), consistently/similarily (ideally not just similar but the same) weighted arrows and arrows of the same length, construction materials and fletching.
For a beginner some of these things (like the finer points of equipment) won't matter too much at first but the physical aspects (parts you use your body for like draw, draw point, point of aim etc) will matter greatly.
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