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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Apr 26, 2012 7:16:35 GMT
So... long story short, I just bought a recurve bow on the classifieds (see HERE) to replace my former longbow, which unfortunately shot its last a few years ago before splintering due to old age and a few decades of sitting in an attic before I acquired it. Great! Now I have a bow. Totally. Epic. ...Right? Only one thing- what about arrows?! :? Somehow, I forgot that ammunition is necessary... :lol: I will admit to being woefully uneducated in the realm of archery, so please feel free to pelt me with random tips and knowledge of all persuasions. I would be especially grateful for any information regarding specific things I should know about recurve bows (if there are any), and most importantly, what kind of arrows should I get? What are the options? Where should I get them? So on and so forth. Your help is greatly appreciated. Thanks, -Slayer
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Aaron
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Post by Aaron on Apr 26, 2012 7:39:13 GMT
Personally, I would go with these: rudderbowsarchery.com/shopping/ ... mao0hds121 With the 15% off, it's the same price I paid for my half dozen (granted, I got them all with trade points). The cost for nocks (he'll do self or plastic, I chose self nocks), cutting to length and attaching tips is all included in the price. I've found a few places cheaper, but none that also offer those services without incurring an extra cost. For arrow length, generally go 1" longer than your draw length to give the arrowhead room to clear the front of the bow (and your hand).
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Post by ineffableone on Apr 26, 2012 9:44:49 GMT
I would suggest wood or carbon arrows, don't go with aluminium as it is just not as durable as the other two materials. Both wood and carbon have their fans I prefer wood arrows, but do see that carbon are good quality. Wood tends to be a bit less in cost than carbon, but carbon will probably last longer. However they both have flaws and good points. There are tons of places you can find wood arrows, just google wood arrows. 3rivers has some decent wood arrows from a few different people including their own, there are a few good wood arrow vendors on ebay, some other archery shops sell decent wood arrows. You can general find 6 wood arrows for $40-$80 depending on the details. For 12 you can usually find them from $90-$200. Usually they are sold in 6 or 12 packs though I have seen a few 9 arrow packs, and a few 3 arrow packs. Important info! You want to get a bow stringer. 3rivers Archery sells them as do most other decent archery supply. A bow stringer is safer for both you and the bow than other stringing methods. It also is quick and easy to use. Some other stuff to pick up, not that you need them all at once, but this is a good list of items needed. String wax, finger glove or tabs, arm guard/bracer. quiver or quiver like object, you might also want nock points and nock pliers, also a bow square, and even a spare string so you have one in reserve. From there, it is all about extras, like sting silencers, brush guards, etc. There are lots of little extras you can add. silencers, and brush guards do have function but aren't necessary. Though my Sage is now almost completely silent after installing silencers and sticktamer brushguards. I am sure others have lots of advice also, and I might drop some other advice too. Welcome to the fun of archery. Just get ready for the head ache of trying to figure out and understand spine weights for your arrows. 3rivers has this handy spine chart pdf you can download www.3riversarchery.com/pdf/ArrowCharts.pdfAnd yes pretty much all the other charts are just as confusing but trust me it does get easier to understand as you gain experience.
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Post by Tendrax on Apr 26, 2012 10:12:40 GMT
Really not much else to be said. Let us know how it shoots once you get a chance to take it out!
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Sam H
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Post by Sam H on Apr 26, 2012 12:12:26 GMT
One vendor of arrows that I have really come to trust and like over the years is this: www.dmerrill.com/page.php?funct=as&pName=aboutarcheryThis gentleman makes his own arrows, strings and other accessories. When it comes to arrows he is meticulous about the arrows he makes and sells. He weighs each shaft, nock, arrowhead and fletching separately before making the arrows to make sure that a set of arrows are as close together in weight as possible. We're talking within a couple of grains close. He then re-weighs them after they've been made to ensure they are still that close in weight. Why is this relevant? Well this ensures consistent flight properties from one arrow to the next. He offers a wide selection of customizations for your arrows to truly make them your own. His arrows are fletched with only real feathers in solid or barred patterns and in a variety of colors to choose from. He can and will fletch arrows with a 3 fletch or 4 fletch pattern and will fletch straight, offset or helical upon your request. You can even request a right wing or left wing fletch (the feathers coming from the right wing or left wing of the goose/turkey which makes a difference in the direction of the spin of the arrow - it is said that a left wing arrow will fly better for left handed shooters etc.) He will also stain the shafts per your request. He also offers painting of the entire shaft or partial shaft dipping per your request too. He also offers different types and colors of nocks as well. Of course the arrows can be made with the correct spine weight to your bow and made to the length of your desire. His arrows start at 32" long and go down from there. His prices start at $70 for a dozen quad fletched arrows with solid color fletching and basic nocks and a basic shaft stain with field tips. 3 fletched arrows start at $65 per dozen. This is all prior to shipping of course. Any other additions to the orders such as custom colors etc. will increase the price but compared to other places his prices are extremely reasonable and the quality of the product he provides is top notch. My wife and I had purchased arrows from him for years prior to starting to make our own. Of the wooden arrows that we've shot it is our opinion (and my wife still believes this to be true even with making our own arrows) they are the best flying arrows you can get for the money. In fact my wife wants to purchase more of his arrows when we have the money because she notices that they fly much better than our own arrows we make.
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Post by ineffableone on Apr 26, 2012 18:05:03 GMT
Wow that looks like a really good deal, considering his price for 12 is close or less than many people's price for 6. With your recommendation too, that definitely makes me want to get some from him. I like how he allows the arrows to be customized and the process looks pretty simple. I think I will be ordering some arrows from him soon. Thanks for the link, I bookmarked it and plan to try his arrows out soon.
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Post by ineffableone on Apr 26, 2012 18:15:15 GMT
I did notice one thing, dmerrill's arrows don't say what type of wood that he is using. Sam, do you have any idea what wood it is? I am guessing PO, but there are plenty of other popular woods that it could be.
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Sam H
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Post by Sam H on Apr 26, 2012 19:02:42 GMT
The last set of arrows I got from him were as a present for my wife. They were made of Port Orford Cedar. To my knowledge he only uses that wood for his arrows but its been about 5 years since I last ordered so at this point I don't know if that's still his standard practice or if he's changed woods.
I also had this gentleman make strings for me - that was something I never managed to get the hang of. He'll make custom strings to length and even color combinations for you. He's actually quite the craftsman when it comes to archery accessories.
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Post by chrisperoni on Apr 26, 2012 20:03:10 GMT
all good stuff already said- I want to add that when you make a quiver Slayer you better post pics! Also, you have all the tools to make your own bowstringer- google pics or I can send pics of mine and you'll have one in no time. Your leatherworking background is just right for such a task. Same for tabs, and bracers etc.
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Post by ineffableone on Apr 26, 2012 20:14:50 GMT
Cool my first guess was PO (Port Orford) as it tends to be the most commonly used wood arrow material.
I am not familiar with the alternative string material he is offering, I currently use a Brownell's Fast Flight string, which adds 5-7 fps to your arrow speed, but can only be used with bows with reinforced string nocks. I have been looking into various different string material. Brownell has a bunch of different materials besides FF, but it seems difficult to get decent simple info for the differences between one material and the next. The material dmerrill offers besides the Dacron, which seems to be the general generic string material, is all BCY materials which I have no experience with. After doing a little research they seem decent, how ever like my Research with Brownell and other string material makers, it is difficult to get decent simple clear info on the differences between each material. The world of string materials is confusing and no one seems to like to make it simple for people to learn. I have figured out you get faster arrow speed with strings that are less strands, but it is weird how little simple info there is. 3rivers for example, lists Fast Flight strings as adding 5-7 fps for arrows, but doesn't give this same helpful info for any other string material. Even though I am sure some of the other strings improve performance just like FF strings do.
One of these days I am going to start making my own strings, it would be nice though to know what materials to use, and the differences of how they perform first. Until I learn those details, I probably wont be making my own, just buying strings made by others and testing how I like different materials.
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Sam H
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Post by Sam H on Apr 26, 2012 20:43:15 GMT
Honestly when it comes to bow strings I'm rather clueless. One that that was told to me was to find a string type and material that worked for me and stick with it. Consistency is better than an extra few fps.
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Post by ineffableone on Apr 26, 2012 22:06:32 GMT
Yes I would agree with go with what works for you. I just sort of wish there was a better system of comparison for string materials. It definitely is not just about how many fps, there is factors like creep and stretch for different materials. Though I still haven't gotten my head wrapped around it all yet.
I definitely like the Fast Flight over the Dacron, my curiosity about other string material is more about being able to compare the differences well. It is like the world of string material is trying to keep from saying what the specific qualities of the materials are in comparison with each other even within their own company product line. BCY or Brownell both have multi different string material, but looking through them I just scratch my head and wonder which one I would prefer, I see each talked up in their descriptions, but there is no real reference of the different qualities to make me pick one over the other. Sort of odd. Reminds me of my first time trying to figure out arrow spine weights etc. My head was just a jumble of confusion.
So Slayer, sorry I went off on a string material tangent there. Though that might be something for you to remember, that not all strings are equal, not all strings are made for every bow, and to shop around for the strings you like best. The Dacron strings seem to be the ones that come standard on most bows, and it sort of the generic default string most get. It is functional but not exceptional. There are a lot of other strings made from many different materials. Things like Fast Flight may increase fps, but also are thinner, making you need to build up your serving to fit the nock on your arrow. Also high performance strings aren't compatible with every bow, so I would consult with professionals if your considering FF or other high performance strings.You can ask at 3Rivers, or most any archery shop for compatibility for strings and bow.
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Sam H
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Post by Sam H on Apr 26, 2012 22:27:10 GMT
So back to arrows - Slayer I recommend buying more than a dozen arrows. When you're working with wooden arrows you'll find they DO break and DO take sets. How often depends on the target you're using and your back stop (or lack thereof).
I'd actually recommend having three or four dozen on hand for continued shooting enjoyment. When I first got into archery I found that a dozen arrows disappeared rather quickly.
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Aaron
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Post by Aaron on Apr 26, 2012 23:08:22 GMT
Eh, I've had the same three wood target arrows (I have a dozen, but haven't used the others yet) for about 8 years, shooting them pretty hard for about 6 of those years, and only one is starting to show some serious wear on the fletchings. Unless he's treating his arrows like garbage, he should be more than fine with a dozen.
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Sam H
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Post by Sam H on Apr 26, 2012 23:25:40 GMT
The targets I typically shoot into are compressed cardboard. Its what the local archery ranges used when I lived in Milwaukee and when I moved away we shot into bales of this natural fiber that really grabbed and held the arrows. I used to visit the archery range twice a week and shot for a couple hours each visit. That really wore on the arrows. The compressed cardboard tended to keep the arrowheads rather than releasing them so I found myself having to replace arrowheads often. Also shooting into medium that grips arrows that much causes stress on the shafts and as a result they can and do warp. I used to wonder why I shot so poorly after a few months of shooting at the range then I got new arrows and they found out I was shooting fine again because the arrows had warped despite being almost undiscernable with the naked eye. I also hunt with my arrows and as a result have had numerous broken arrows when I've either hit my mark (and the arrow breaks when the game runs with it) or missed my mark (and the arrow breaks when I hit a tree, stone etc.)
I suppose if you don't shoot a lot you could nurse along a dozen arrows for years but if you shoot a lot its typically necessary to replace your arrows at least once a year (this is true of ANY type of arrow, wood, aluminum or carbon fiber although fiberglass arrows tend to be a bit more resilient).
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Post by ineffableone on Apr 26, 2012 23:40:45 GMT
I would agree with Sam that in the beginning you will tend to break a lot more arrows. This depends upon your target and back stop as well as the poundage of your bow, and the general quality of the arrows themselves.
It also depends upon your aim. Stacking a bunch of arrows on a target increases your chance of damage from hitting one arrow with another, think the famous Robin Hood splitting an arrow trick. Yep that really does happen, though I have not done it I know many who have. They weren't trying, it was accidental. They were just aiming at the bulls eye, getting a tight grouping and one arrow split another. OK not as dramatically as the movie but that does happen, More common though is you will hit your other arrows shaft or fletching. If you hit a shaft it can weaken it, causing it to break later or even could hit and break it right away.
Pulling arrows out of a target can also cause you to snap off the tip. I have done this a few times. Most likely there was already some flaw in the wood to help the tip break like that. Pulling against the fletching grain if the fletching is buried in a target can ruin your fletching, and even pulling through you might damage your fletching.
As you get better you will break less arrows. Unless your out stump shooting, then you will break more. Stump shooting is not really just shooting stumps btw, it is shooting stream banks, fallen logs, and anything really that strikes your fancy as a target. Often people use bunny busters or other blunts for this though other use field points. The impact force of hitting something hard, like the wood of a stump or hitting a rock under the earth of the soil can cause your arrow to break. It happens, and most stump shooters I know use their lower grade arrows for their stump shooting due to this. It is quite a fun way to practice though as you are less target practising, and more target hunting. Stalking through the woods finding targets and shooting them then stalking on for your next target.
Arrows are consumables, so plan to break a few especially when starting out. Though unlike a bullet you can usually use an arrow many times before it is no good. You can practise with them and get 100's of shoots from just 1 arrow often times though sometimes you will break an arrow after just a few shots, some just have hidden flaws in them. Carbon arrows are more resistant and this is why many people prefer them. Though they are more expensive than wood and eventually they too can break. I personally like the wood, but I do understand the merits of carbon arrows. Carbon also has a more consistent spine and grain weight, while wood is always more varied.
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Aaron
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Post by Aaron on Apr 26, 2012 23:48:36 GMT
Like I said, for about 6 of those 8 years (since for two of them I lived in an apartment and couldn't shoot), I used my arrows frequently and fairly hard. For 3 of those years I was not shooting into an optimal target, using a big styrofoam block (not the layered ones, just a big block of hard styrofoam) with a backstop of plywood, and I would go through the foam and into the plywood several times every time I was out shooting (3-4 times a week for 2-3 years, and about 1-2 times a week after that). And I STILL have and use those same three arrows as my primary target arrows, with no warps, no breakages, and only recently some fletching damage on one of them. I had a field tip come off but that was after I switched to one of the layered foam blocks, but there was no damage to the arrow. I just glued on another field point and it's right as rain.
Maybe I've just been lucky. It's very possible. But considering I have not exactly been delicate with these three arrows and they have held up this well (to the point where I haven't even needed to ever use my other 9 arrows), I doubt it very much. I have literally gotten thousands of shots out of each of these three arrows over the course of their use, and I seeno reason why I can't double that amount before I retire them.
And note that these are not some expensive arrows, I got them off ebay about 8 years ago for around 40 bucks.
I was also a rank amateur (as I still am, but was more so then) when I was shooting these arrows hard.
I'm not saying Slayer WON'T ever need more arrows, but I think telling him to start off with more than a dozen is ill advice.
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Sam H
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Post by Sam H on Apr 27, 2012 0:03:59 GMT
I don't know how ill of advice that really is. I personally think its good advice - your three arrows are not the standard but the exception.
I know that I personally found myself in need of more arrows after just a month of shooting when I first began archery. I know of many others who were in the same boat after a month or two of shooting.
As for your arrows you may not be able to notice any damage to them but the stress is there. The warpage may not be visible to the eye but it can be seen in the difference of the way the arrow flies vs. an unwarped one.
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Aaron
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Post by Aaron on Apr 27, 2012 0:18:51 GMT
Since they fly right where I aim, I doubt I need to worry about warpage.
I say it is ill advice because it is a large monetary investment for something that isn't a sure thing. You don't know if Brogdon will need more arrows, a dozen is a good number to start off with. If he needs more, he can purchase them. But dumping 250+ into arrows when you're just starting out seems rather wasteful. It's very easy to give such advice when it is not your dollar, but until Brogdon says "man I'm breaking/losing a lot of these arrows, advice?" I'm going to say he should stick with a dozen for now, and see what he needs from there.
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Sam H
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Post by Sam H on Apr 27, 2012 0:22:51 GMT
I understand all too well the value of a dollar however if you want a novice to be able to shoot enough that he'll get the practice he needs a dozen arrows is an awfully small number of arrows to practice with. That's all I'm saying.
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