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Post by chrisperoni on Apr 6, 2012 3:20:40 GMT
Where I live, in Windsor Ontario, we have our local Sportsmans Club which naturally includes a group for archery. makes sense right? Well I never thought of looking into this until just 3 weeks ago! Even though I've been there several times before for pub crawls and dart league stuff (brought there by the dad's of some friends of mine), I just didn't think of it until now. Maybe because I used to be able to shoot in my backyard...
I gotta say I had a great time. Everyone there is relaxed and laid back. Lots of joking around, but organized enough to keep the firing line moving safely and quickly. The age group was pretty varied; from teens or young college kids (hard to tell for sure) to seniors. Skill level also has a lot of variety but mostly new shooters. I think there were only 4 guys there who've shot more than me, 3 of them being the guys running it. About 20-25 people there- I guess that was a big turnout according to the regulars.
It's held indoors for now with targets set at 10 yards but in a couple of weeks they should be good to go outdoors where they have 20, 30, 40 yard targets. There's also a 3D target range and access to some county lands for more shooting- I think this is used for the leauge shoots. They supply recurves and arrows for anyone who wants to try it out, and charge $5 for non club members, $3 for members. I'll be signing up for the Sportsmans Club membership next week.
The fellow running it, BowBob as he's known, is real easy going and a nice guy. He checked out my gear, reset the cables on my cams to give me bit more draw (I guess my bowstring is undedrstrung and set on the shortest roll for the cams, to reduce the draw), and gave me few tips on imporving my arrows flight. My fiberglass arrows were not suitable for use as it's about 50#'s- he siad I could maybe get away with them but with so many other people around I was better to use the arrows they have handy. The other two guys running things were also very easy to get along with. One guy let me try his 40# recurve- felt good! I also got confirmation on the size bow I wanted to buy (60 or 62 inches long, maybe 40# or 50#, 29" draw). This was pretty much what I was figuring on but it's good to get to try different sizes and #age to know I was on the right track.
Anyway, I'm in for sure- I'll be back next week and everytime I get a chance when the tourney's and leauge stuff starts.
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Post by Tendrax on Apr 6, 2012 3:34:36 GMT
Cool beans. I used to go to archery every Sunday at my local SCA canton practice, but life got to me and I didn't want to wake up at 8AM on my days off anymore. Lol. I still go once in a while, but eh. The marshall has a pretty cool setup though. The range is his driveway, so we can get all the way back to 80 yards or so before it curves a bit and trees get in the way. Though all the SCA people want to do royal rounds, which is 6 arrows at 20, 30, 40, and a timed shoot at 20. I hate royals rounds and would rather just shoot at 20 all day. Lol. Errr, anyway, glad you found a nice place to shoot man. Don't get lazy like me and stop going. Lol.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2012 5:42:01 GMT
Congratulations! Archery is a great community and the more experienced people are happy to help beginners out. If you get your compound bow tuned up properly, and get some decent arrows, you'll enjoy it even more. There's nothing as pleasing as seeing your arrows consistently landing in the middle of the targets form increasingly greater ranges. Incidentally, compound bows are the easiest to master with the least practice if you can resist tinkering with the things, set them up right and leave them there, and just practise away. Recurves are sweet to shoot, but take a bit more practise. I shoot both. My compound is set at 60#, the limit for our range, and my two recurves are rated at 50# at 28" with a 58" length, and my latest baby is a Hoyt Gamemaster II takedown recurve at 45# with a 62" length - www.hoyt.com/recurve_bows/hoyt_r ... unting.php Let us know how you go, and if you get another bow, please post it up!
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Post by randomnobody on Apr 6, 2012 6:58:49 GMT
Cool that you found a place to shoot that includes advice and help. I wonder if there's anything like that around me...
I think it's about time I actually look into this stuff.
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Post by Rifleman Lizard on Apr 6, 2012 18:01:35 GMT
A compound bow is a recurve bow with training wheels. Congrats on finding a relaxed venue. The best ones are chilled out. What recurve do you like the look of?
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Post by kristoferjaemz on Apr 12, 2012 10:10:36 GMT
I have a Bear Grizzly recurve coming my way, should be here in about 4 weeks. I will post a review asap, might give you something to base your decision on.
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Post by chrisperoni on Apr 12, 2012 11:39:45 GMT
nice choice! I already ordered theough- should be here soon
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Post by kristoferjaemz on Apr 12, 2012 14:03:09 GMT
Did you say what you decided on?
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Post by chrisperoni on Apr 12, 2012 14:31:37 GMT
Uhh, I guess not - lol . I talked with Rifleman about it but forgot to post here. I went with the Greatree Osprey- purchased from a place called Andover Archery Fantastic service and equally impressive prices I must say. I highly recommend Andover Archery- I dealt with Mark. From their site: Greatree Archery "Osprey" take-down recurve hunting bow. For 2011 this bow is now available in 56" or 60". The deflexed geometry of the Osprey helps to eliminate finger pinch and shoot with more foregiveness.The riser is made from laminated Zebra wood. No bushings are installed but we offer to install sight / quiver bushings for no extra charge. The shelf is crowned for better arrow flight. The limbs are held in position with two steel alignment pins and held down with an allen bolt. The limbs are a dual wood core with black fiberglass face and back. Finished mycarta limb tips allow all types of synthetic string materials to be used and still offer a full one year warranty. The bow will come with a carpet style rest installed plus a dacron string with nock point.. Right and left hand models. Complete bow $149.95 Limbs only $75.00 Available draw weights: 35, 40, 45, 55# @ 28" 60" bow for draw lengths up to 30" 35, 40, 45, 50, 55# @ 28" 56" bow for draw lengths up to 28" I chose the 60" 45# right. I made this decision after talking with Mark at Andover first by email then phone. The limbs on this bow are interchangeable with those from 2 other models I believe, which allows for nice variety in weight and overall length (therefore related concerns such as draw length comfort etc.) Of all they offer the Osprey seems to be the right pick for me given it's particular riser style. I was close to getting a Samick Sage as suggested by ineffableone however Andover has a better package imho as their shipping is lower for me in Canada and they include a bowstringer with every recuve (free shipping USA I believe). I know the Osprey lists for $10 more than the Sage but overall the price for all I'm getting is better from Andover, and I really can't say enough good things about the quality service they've offered! That is a big factor to me. This is not a slight to 3 Rivers at all- it's just that I feel Andover is a great family run business and I support that. (sidenote- does the Sage have alignment pins on the limbs? I've never had a bow without these and I wonder if it makes a big difference?) It shipped on Tuesday I think along with some arrows (of course). Once I have it in hand I'll do an introductory review and plan to do follow ups to show how it holds up over time.
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Post by Rifleman Lizard on Apr 12, 2012 15:30:08 GMT
You're going to love that bow, Chris. Excellent price for what you're getting in return.
I'll also vouch for Andover Archery. CP recommended them to me, and I decided to order a yumi (kyudo bow) although I'm in the UK. I should point out that the yumi is the largest man-portable bow in the world and my own is measured in at 2.5 metres. Their "no international shipping" rule applies to all of their bows not classed as short bows, not just the longbow section as noted on their website. Despite the obvious logistical problem Mark from AA agreed to ship it to me providing I pay UPS international fees. He also advised I stock up on other parts to make the most of the expensive shipping, and at these value for money prices I'm happy to do just that! Top bloke, top business.
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Post by kristoferjaemz on Apr 12, 2012 16:19:54 GMT
That seems to be an awesome price if the bow is as quality as you say it is. My cousin is looking to get into traditional archery and I will be sure to turn him on to that company.
I have always wanted to try a yumi bow, but with my stature (5'3") and no horse handy, I don't think I match up well with that style. I am built more like a body-building hobbit, so I stick with the 50# recurves for the most part.
Looking forward to more stories regarding both of your bows!
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Post by chrisperoni on Apr 12, 2012 17:12:28 GMT
That's great to hear I'm pleased you are able to get that bow RL. 2 & 1/2 meters seems daunting to have to hold and manage while drawing. When you break it out at your first group shoot you've got to do the Crocodile Dundee thing to the other guys: That's not a bow, this is a bow!" Quality wise is yet to be seen firsthand of course but I did ask a fellow online who owned an Osprey and according to him it performed better than some custom bows costing more than twice the price. This gentleman knew his bow business too- longtime practitioner with experience in many low to high end bows. Time will tell but I got the impression from what I've read online and heard from a few people the bow will suffice well for my needs. The club I just joined actually uses the entry model bow made by the same company, Greatree Archery, so that did give me a chance to see firsthand at least a comparison of their work. They use the Mohegan (a.k.a. PSE Razorbak). I had originally asked about the Firefox however decided to go with a bow that has options for limbs with more #'s, as well as a step up in quality.
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Post by kristoferjaemz on Apr 12, 2012 19:24:00 GMT
Do you have any idea how those PSE bows perform? I saw some shoddy reviews of them on the Cabela's website, but those folks can tend to be a bit snobbish when it comes to bows. Either way, I will be shooting a 50# recurve for the first time, my other bows being 45#, and I look forward to comparing the handling of our bows. Can I ask what your build is? You chose the 45#, which I think most grown men can handle, and i know I do well with that draw weight. I'm a little bit nervous, to tell the truth, about the 50#. I am a short guy, but very athletic so I think I should be able to pull it off. Hell, if our ancestors could pull 140# longbows, what kind of ninny would I be if I couldn't handle a 50# bow, right? Also, where are you getting your arrows from? I have the usual Cabelas or Gander Mountain in mind due to the proximity of the stores, and i think I will need to bring the bow in for an initial measurement. Minor crisis here I need to check out for a bit.
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Post by chrisperoni on Apr 12, 2012 21:37:34 GMT
Q. Do you have any idea how those PSE bows perform? A. I did get a chance to shoot a few arrows with the Mohegan which is the same bow as the PSE Razorbak (Greatree makes them for PSE who rebrands them). It's decent- lightweight for sure, and stands up to inexperienced users mistakes. However it's hard for me to give a view on accuracy with so little shooting and since I used arrows I've never shot with. Seemed to have more noticeable vibration than other recurves I've tried. I'll ask the instructor tonight how durable he finds them to be with all the use they get (as they are passed around to all different people). Otherwise I have shot only late model PSE compounds - which were alright but not as smooth drawing as my Bear. Quote. "I saw some shoddy reviews of them on the Cabela's website" Reply. I would go to ArcheryTalk Forum for info- I'm new there but so far so good- friendly and helpful. Q. what your build is? A. Me or my bow? Bow- Right hand shoot, 60 inch total length, 18" deflex riser, rug rest, no sights or other extras, dacron string, 30" Easton Gamegetter XX75 aluminum arrows feather fletched. Arrows from Andover as well. Me - 5'11", 200lbs and out of shape lol. I was trying a 40# recurve last week and it was surprisingly easy to draw and hold hence my decision for 45# now. I had at first thought I might go lower for my recurve since I was so used to my compound.
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Post by kristoferjaemz on Apr 12, 2012 23:44:19 GMT
I was referring to your stature when I asked about your build. Sorry for the haphazard posts, I am nursing a back injury with prescription narcotics and tend to get a little sleepy/light headed while I type. I was just curious because I ordered my 50# without ever having tried one and hope that the 5# difference won't be too much for me to handle. I am not in the greatest shape, but what I lack in endurance I make up for in strength. Have you shot a 50# recurve? How did you manage it? I am 5'3" 220 lbs. Sounds a bit lopsided, I know, but I have an 18" neck, bench 325, and can free squat over 500. I played (US) football and hockey. At work they call me the mighty morphin power midget. Yet I still have some apprehension about 5#, go figure. Watch me get the bow and have a hell of a time with it and my 115lb wife grab it and put me to shame.
Hope you enjoyed the bio lol.
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Post by ineffableone on Apr 12, 2012 23:59:15 GMT
That is a great looking bow, and yes I imagine with being in Canada etc the price point makes sense getting it over the Sage. The one thing I see as a plus for the Sage over the Osprey is the no tools take down, otherwise they seem decently matched in quality. Though the Osprey has some bonuses, like the carpet rest already on, and nock point already installed. The Sage does not have this, but not having it does allow for personal customization with rest materials you want, nock point as you desire, etc. I agree with the buying from a smaller family run business too, I love supporting the small guys and will even pay more for things at times just to do so. 3Rivers does have some excellent customer service, but you will never beat the customer service of a family business who cares.
As for alignment pins on the Sage, no they don't have them, and now that you mention it, I do remember when I got mine I sort of thought it odd. However I have had no trouble or issue with it not having them. I have removed the limbs a few times and put them back on and felt no difference in shooting. I have also not seen one mention of the lack of them on the Sage causing any issue. In fact I have yet to see any real issues reported for the Sage. The Sage is a bow that has been getting glowing praise as a high class beginner recurve for low cost. Again and again I have seen it praised as shooting like bows twice and more the cost of the Sage. It seems to have made a pretty big impression on the archery scene as a reliable inexpensive TD recurve. Or course is it a Korean bow, Samick is a Korean company. However the Koreans are some to the top archers in competition archery so that is actually a good thing it being Korean.
Does that include the TD recurves no international shipping? Honestly I have been looking for another decent TD recurve to suggest to people, I hate hyping just the Sage, LOL. The Greatree Osprey looks like a decent bow to recommend to people and I would love to be able to suggest Andover Archery to folks if they can get them in the US too. Oh never mind I see they actually have free shipping in the US on all hunting recurves. Missed that as I scrolled down to see the bows too quickly. I think I will definitely be bookmarking Andover Archery's website, and taking a deeper look into their products.
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Post by kristoferjaemz on Apr 13, 2012 1:55:32 GMT
Coming from a guy who sucks when it comes to technology, I love that Andover website. They put everything you need to know right there where it belongs, no searching the whole site just to realize you have to call them to get an answer. I just sent the link to my cousin, hopefully he will bite and we will both be shooting together by the end of May.
With regard to the OP, I went searching for an archery club near me, to no avail. The closest one was 67 miles away. Maybe something for a once a month visit, but nothing I can turn into a regular affair.
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Post by chrisperoni on Apr 13, 2012 4:16:36 GMT
(2nd night at the club tonight) kristoferjaemz - 5 more #'s will be fine for you I'm sure. You gotz tha muscleees it sounds like. Plus the poundage listed on a bow usually is measured from a 28" draw so if you draw under you pull less pounds and if you draw over you pull more; meaning you may have already been pulling that much or might not hit it anyway. Overall 5 more won't kill ya. I checked out a longbow tonight. Made by one of the guys there. Layered bamboo in the centre, sandwiched with hickory on each side, then a strip of bamboo on each outside really just for looks. about 6' tall unstrung, can be pulled to about 70#'s but I did not get it back that far LOL I'd say I got it back to about 55ish. I was trying it without an arrow, just feeling the string and weight, I could have pulled harder but I would not have been able to control the string to a slow relax so I didn't want to push it too much. I like their site too- simple and clear. It's really cool how people are going to them. I told them I would tell my buddy's about their service and I was surprised how fast RiflemanLizard jumped on a deal from them, now you guys are being cool too and checking it out. Word of mouth is a great thing when we have a group that looks out for each other - SBG is great like that!! Let them know we all heard from them here and maybe they'll sign up and give more reason for the archery sub forum! ineffableone- the no tools takedown of the Firefox was one of the reasons I was looking at it- definitely useful. I didn't know 3 Rivers didn't include a nock point- I guess I figured everyplace does that. But yeah, the little extra's from Andover do mean a lot to an educated consumer and do remind me of 'the good old days' way of doing business. Greatree is made overseas too but of course here at SBG we know that means nothing- quality can come from anywhere (says the guy with 10 swords from china ) I too have read tons of great stuff about the Sage and just like you said- many users say it performs like a bow costing twice as much. The only negative I heard a bit of was some delamination problems last year. But that could have been either a bad batch, or just over exaggerated (bad) hype, or maybe just because so much volume went out with all the good press that it seems like there were more bad bows when really it was still the same percentages of failure as any company. Besides, I've read plenty about all brands having a failure from time to time. The Osprey, Goshawk and Highlander are all like in price and style, each with a lean to a different specialty. I think between those three you have great options for a good bow at a buck fifty (and I believe the limbs are interchangeable- $75 for a new set is not too bad- pretty close to the price of Sage limbs) For sure the Sage is a good buy- there's just no way it would have so many positive reviews if it wasn't. I'm eager to see how the arrows from Andover look (you can pick colours) and feel- I've not shot with feathers since I was a kid.
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Post by ineffableone on Apr 13, 2012 9:06:16 GMT
*edit after rereading the description it doesn't say they install just include the nock point, so maybe the stuff I wrote bellow is unneeded. Though nock points are fairly inexpensive through 3Rivers $1.99 for a 5 pack. Maybe the reason 3Rivers does not include them is there are different sizes for different strings, and people tend to change strings with the Sage, not sure. Well there is good and bad for having a pre installed nock point. It could be good for the beginner, but for people who want to tune their own bow it is a waste, which is why 3Rivers doesn't add the nock point for you and most places I know of don't either. Most archers want to put their own nock point on as it's placement is very specific to how you tune your bow. How many twists do you put in your string, what you set your brace height at etc. Also some people prefer nock points above or bellow their arrow nock and some people like two one above and one bellow LOL. By having a preinstalled nock point your forced to use the setting they decide, or your nock is either too high or too low. This can cause a lot of problems even for a beginner with a preinstalled nock as if they don't set up the bow like the nock was when installed the arrows will shoot poorly and the beginner wont know why. This is what the Bow Square is for to find the proper nock position. Something the Sage has the Osprey didn't is it has the AMO bushings and plunger bushing already installed unlike the Osprey though they do say they will install them for you for no extra charge at Andover Archery. The string the Samick Sage comes with is often replaced by a Fast Flight string. Another plus for the Sage, not sure if the Osprey is Fast Flight capable (they say it is compatible with all synthetic strings but would ask before trying) not all bows are. But the string the Sage comes with is one that takes a lot of twists to make the right length for the bow and get the right brace height. This is the one serious semprini I have heard about the Sage. I have never used my original string and am storing it as a back up. I immediately upgraded to the Fast Flight. For those not familiar with fast flight strings, they increase the energy release of the string, which in turn means you need higher spined arrows. My 50# Sage recurve shoots 55# to 60# spined arrows. The Fast Flight string material should add approximately 5-7 fps to your arrow speed.
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Post by chrisperoni on Apr 13, 2012 15:10:44 GMT
Ineffableone- I had thought of it as you had- that the nock point would come installed. But as you re-read it so did I now and maybe it is just included for me to set where I like; we'll know soon I hope Still, I like that Andover states what they include and often include all the little extra's just to be sure a new user has what they need (even if they don't know what they need). I'm not sure how many strands the dacron string they include will be, nor do I know if the bow is accepting of a ff string. I have some trepidation over using a ff as I have heard about them damaging bows. Do they have a major effect on accuracy? I like that the Osprey has no bushings unless ordered- I love the visual appeal of wood grain (as you may know I have a small woodworking shop in my garage),and the uninterrupted look is just right for me. kristoferjaemz - I forgot to include the instructors opinion on the Mohegan. He said the club has had them for a year now and they have held up very well. No concerns with excessive wear, no broken parts. He's pleased with them considering price and how much varied use they get. (this is coming from a guy who used to own his own archery store and now builds custom bows- lever limb, compounds, stuff like that).
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