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Post by wolf_shade on Mar 30, 2012 18:17:29 GMT
First, a clarification of terms. Sageo, I'm used to that being the cord on the kurigata. Can it also refer to the ito? Ito, I'm used to that being the cord around the tsuka, is it refering to the actual wrapping and is sageo before it's wrapped?
That out of the way, I've recently become the owner of a Hanwei Raptor Unokubi Zukuri. I'm quite satisfied with everything. Everything that is except for the sageo. It's got almost no friction hold to it. This makes it impossible to do a simple quick "storage wrap" (both ends parralell down around the saya and tuck the ends back up under themselves at the bottom and pull tight). It further makes it extremely difficult to do a display knot. Not sure how it would work for holding the saya in place while wearing, I don't expect I'll ever wear it as I've got an iaito for Iaido. So I want to repalce the sageo. I did a search and found links to places that sell sageo for about $20 plus shipping. I'm cheap. I'm wondering if there's anything special about sageo or if I can find my way to a local fabric shop and pick up a length of flat cord.
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Post by zentesukenVII on Mar 30, 2012 20:09:18 GMT
The cord on the saya, attached by the kurikata is called Sageo. It is used to tie the saya to the obi. The wrapping on a tsuka is called tsuka-ito. They are different material for different purposes. I guess if you are not actually using the sageo for anything other than display you could buy some ito and use that as a sageo substitute.
As far as I know, there are two types of sageo: Shiguechi and kakucho.
Shigeuchi is thick and stiff, usually for nice display knots. It is made of either silk or cotton. I have heard they use starch to get it to be stiffer.I use it for all my swords. I do tie them to my obi often and I like to have them in nice display knots after use too, it works great for that.
Kakucho is more traditional I believe. It is thinner and more pliable for use. Apparently it is better for using to tie to your obi. The stuff that comes with the raptor series katana is considered kakucho, however it is synthetic and low quality. The real stuff, silk and cotton is much nicer.
I know nihonzashi, yamato budogu and namikawa have both types readily available. But you can find shigeuchi for a good price at Swordnarmory.com, it is pretty good stuff. Artsfeng.com also has some better quality shigeuchi for a bit more cost.
As far as I know, I have no idea what you could use for a sageo substitute.
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Post by wolf_shade on Mar 30, 2012 20:29:51 GMT
Thank you. I'd seen just enough variation in the use of the words to be uncertain. (For example Artsfeng's offerings are labeled as sageo and ito.) I notice that the stuff at Swordnarmory is per foot (which should provide some savings relative to what I saw) but that it is fraying (nut surprising if you cut a material that is essentially many strands bound together only by friction). On other sites where the sageo is sold in fixed lengths there appears to be a collar around the ends. Is this just a stitch? See Bugei and e-bogu offerings.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Mar 30, 2012 20:52:48 GMT
There are many of different sageo types out there. I think the classification goes by braiding style and thread material used, and the number of threads used. Heck, I used to know a lot more on them than I currently do. I've always been a fan of Kikko sageo and own a Nakafuji style tanto sageo, it's a beautiful style. I used to play with marudai many years ago, and made few nice sageos along the way. But basically you'll easily spend more than 20 dollars for cotton threads and making/buying the equipment. And it takes a while to make one, plus first tries aren't gonna be perfect. I guess I understand how you tie your storage wrap, as I use a similar way to all my swords, display knots will ruin the sageo over time. But that quick wrap should be easy to do regardless of how stiff or flexible the sageo is. Some different sageo styles: www.tozandoshop.com/Sageo_s/177.htm, www.namikawa-ltd.co.jp/cgi-bin/list_e.cgi#22But yes you can replace the sageo with any type of cord you find suitable for the purposes you intend. Some cheap swords have shoelace type sageo, you can use tsuka-ito for sageo too.
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Post by lamebmx on Apr 2, 2012 20:29:25 GMT
Knots should not rely on friction to hold together THAT much. With the quick wrap you spoke of, I normally loop the end into slipknot. Personally, for a sword I use, I just use a length of ito. It is much more manageable and cheaper for the level of use it takes. Plus doing re-wraps, i have quite a few lengths just sitting around. Now if its just sitting on the wall, proper sageo and decorative knots look better. The more slippery/shine stuff tends to make for nicer looking decorative knots, but tends to be stiff and easier than I like to come undone.
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