Taran
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Post by Taran on Apr 2, 2012 9:35:10 GMT
It is a typical thing to rest your shield on your knee. Even a 10 or 12 Lb shield with a forearm hold, rather than a centergrip, gets tiring.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2012 10:24:13 GMT
How about 7mm (9/32") plywood faced with 1.6mm (16ga or 0.0625") steel plate , how do you reckon that would hold up?
Estimated weight - steel plate and shield boss 4kg (8.8lbs), ply backing around would be around 1.4 kg (3lbs), that's 12lbs without a handle. Guessing 13lb with a handle!
I'm building a elongated hexagonal Celtic/Germanic shield, approx 85cm x 48 cm (33.5" x 19"). Trying to figure if this design would need a metal rim at all? Was considering riveting a 3mm x 12mm (1/8" x 1/2") or 3mm x 20mm (1/8" x 3/4" )flat strip on the face around the perimeter. the 3/4" strip would add another 1kg (2.2lbs), the 1/2" strip would add 0.6kg (1.3 lbs).
What do folks reckon?
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Post by johnapsega on Apr 2, 2012 13:57:51 GMT
Im building a 30 inch round shield from plywood backed with canvas. It weights about 5 pounds at 1/4 inches thick. However it does not have a bass yet but that only weights about a pound and a half.
What are you building your shield out of to get it to 12 pounds?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2012 15:40:22 GMT
My plywood is a bit thicker than 1/4" thick, around 1/16" thicker only. The boss weighs exactly 0.84 lbs, and the steel plate which I've cut to shape is 0.0625" steel plate, which weighs 8.1 lbs on its own! The same shield cut out of the ply I estimate to weigh 3lbs. I can really get two shields out of these materials, one wooden and one metal. Might just add bracing strips around the edges and keep it all steel, might be able to get it close to 10 lbs.
I'm not sure what system you guys in the US use for the gauge of sheet metal, but according to the conversion charts, it's 16ga! If I were to make a 30" round shield out of the stuff I'm using, it would easily weigh 15 lbs for just the "donut shape" disc, no boss or handle. If I were to go 14 ga, which according to the charts I have, which is 0.0781" or 1.980mm, the weight will increase by almost 25%, so my current steel plate cutout for the shield would weigh 10lb, and a round 30" one would be weighing close to 19 lbs - without any fittings!
Is there something going on here with these figures? Is what you guys call 16ga equal to 0.0625" (1.59mm) thick? I'm confused.
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Post by johnapsega on Apr 2, 2012 20:47:45 GMT
ohhh You are putting metal on it. Well never mind that makes sense.
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Post by 14thforsaken on Apr 2, 2012 21:03:44 GMT
Mine are around 12 lbs. Mainly because I used 3/4" thick dense composite board as well as adding a metal edge around the edges. I realize mine is overbuilt but I did it that way on purpose. With it being 35" x 20" x 3/4" it covers a good bit of my body. Plus I tend to use my shield as a weapon, I bash with it, shield rush and hook my opponents shield with the edge of it. Most people I've been matched against don't know how to handle a person that actively uses their shield and get into trouble fast.
The other thing is the stance I use with the shield allows me to conceal my reach and to a degree the length and angle I'm holding my sword at.
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on Apr 2, 2012 21:15:01 GMT
Have you guys ever though about getting police riot shields? The round ones, I mean. You can spray paint them or cover them with linen. I've seen some vids with guys using them. I bet they're quite light and durable.
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Taran
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Post by Taran on Apr 3, 2012 4:14:55 GMT
They are. And extremely expensive. You Could find a source for a similar plastic and Make one, though...
A lot of SCAdians use barrel plastic for their heater shields. Might work for center-grip round shields with some stiffening. A boss and grip, some board in the 4 quarters and something to stiffen the edge... It could be done. That much may not even be necessary. Barrel plastic heaters don't tend to have any reinforcement and they do quite well. And if you got the barrel's bottom instead of the sides...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2012 8:55:23 GMT
The riot shields are polycarbonate, and I know that as a material can shatter, unless they do something to it like laminate it in those shields, so I'm not sure how 'battle ready' it would be against a a sword, axe, or mace.
The SCA guys use rattan swords though, is that right? If so, they wouldn't concentrate much force and could nevel cut barrel plastic (or anything for that mater), a real sword would do it quite easily I think.
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Post by 14thforsaken on Apr 4, 2012 4:55:34 GMT
I wouldn't be worried that much about a sword. I'd be more worried about someone with an axe that knows what they're doing. They can hook the top of your shield and pull it away from your body. If you aren't familiar with that tactic it can really ruin your day.
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Post by Kataphractos on Apr 9, 2012 3:00:05 GMT
Here's a half-complete Viking shield I made (the background was eventually painted a scarlet red); being a fool, I went and nailed the boss on before doing the rim, so I'm trying to figure out how to attach the rim with the boss already in place :oops: . Shield was constructed by gluing six planks together, held in place with vice clamps and alligator clamps at the edges, and then cutting the circle with a jigsaw, and the handle nailed into place after whittling a rounded grip. Total cost of materials was ~$45, with about a third of the cost in the boss (courtesy of KoA). While its construction is close to accurate historically, I wouldn't use it in sparring because: A. Like has been said, shields were mostly disposable B. I really like that jormungandr (the boss is supposed to represent the Earth ) C. It's the first shield I've made, I'd hate to see it get shattered
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Post by johnapsega on Apr 9, 2012 20:11:52 GMT
What kinda glue did you use to glue the planks together? I like it though makes me think again about what I designed my shield out of.
Do you have any more recent pictures than that like after you painted it?
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Post by Kataphractos on Apr 10, 2012 23:54:58 GMT
Here's the shield (still rimless) as it currently is. The color is such that it looks orange under certain light :/ I used Gorilla wood glue for the planks.
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Post by johnapsega on Apr 11, 2012 2:36:02 GMT
It looks like you did not cover it in anything right?
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Taran
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Post by Taran on Apr 16, 2012 18:16:05 GMT
Believe me, the force applied by those rattans swords gets plenty concentrated. It is still unusual, though not rare for 14Gg helms to be cracked, and denting them is an everyday event. But, no, rattan will no, without being shepened to a point, Pierce the plastic. Having said that, however, I Have tried to cut the barrel plastic used with real swords. It is, by no means, an easy task. Hell, even double-thick cardboard is harder to cut than tameshegiri, in my experience (plus there's all that horrid glue to clean off). Stabbing through it, though, different story.
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Post by 14thforsaken on Apr 16, 2012 20:57:20 GMT
Most of the real damage is from the blunt force trauma and hydrostatic shock. You can also get pressure cuts; when force gets concentrated in a very small area like the edge of a semi-sharp blade it is perfectly able to cause a cut.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2012 0:46:19 GMT
That makes sense, they aren't acting lacerating like swords at all, they are acting more like a bar mace!
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Paul
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Post by Paul on May 4, 2013 23:08:08 GMT
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Taran
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Post by Taran on May 5, 2013 2:23:44 GMT
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Post by Beowulf on May 9, 2013 3:29:05 GMT
Something I might add...
If you want a definitive work about "heater" shields I would buy "Der Mittelaterliche Reiterschild" by Jan Kohlmorgan. I got mine through Amazon for $30-$50 US. It is entirely in German, but even so it has many historical heater shields photographed in full color with a description for each, plus the probable enarme attachment points in line drawings. The book outlines the history, has lots of line drawing reproduced artwork portraying the heater shield in contemporary art. Also, and perhaps most valuable is the section in the back of the book which has full instructions for reproducing an accurate heater shield including building the curved form to lay the planks on while your gluing it up. It also has period recipes for treating the surfaces that have been tried and tweaked into something workable.
So yeah, it is in German, and no, my modern German is not very good compared to my medieval German. Even so, without any translation of it yet it is worth the cost to me because I know all the info I need is right there awaiting me putting it through an online translator, or getting one of my friends who does know modern German to help me out.
As far as I know (and I research this stuff for fun) this is the best source on heater shields out there, period.
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