|
Post by LittleJP on Jan 11, 2012 23:05:14 GMT
Wear a curiass, though the you'll then have problems with the extremities.
The solution obviously, is to wear a full blown harness everywhere you go.
|
|
|
Post by lamebmx on Jan 15, 2012 19:12:19 GMT
Well there is precedence in more wearable armor such as this: me and american samuri had a long pm discussion about it. This guy is chainmail between 2 layers of fabric, yet again designed to be worn as clothing. hopefully them thugs are not running around with katana's and half an ounce of skill. I had a t10 katana go through steel with very little effort. I think the cutting board plastic may be the best route for blade protection. oh and there is no way to escape the force of a blow. its simple someone hits you, you take the force of the hit. you can however spread the force out (rigid plates) thus reducing the pressure of the hit. and you can increase the time the impact takes with foams. similar to the difference between a punch and a push that require the same amount of work. but i agree with everyone else here, there are trade offs. you are a harder target to hit if you can move. and if you make a setup that makes a baseball bat feel like a push, you are going to have problems moving in that armor, and all the padding will drastically increase your body temp compounded by the extra work you put out to move in the armor. and when you pass out from heat stroke in a fight, they have all the time in the world to go after unarmored spots.
|
|
jhart06
Member
Slowly coming back from the depths...
Posts: 3,292
|
Post by jhart06 on Jan 15, 2012 19:24:40 GMT
The only time the effect of 'spreading out the force' can fail to some degree is with things like crowbars, maces, warhammers or the like.
Something where the mass/momentum is adequately focused on the object of impact enough that the armor fails to distribute it perfectly, or even adequately.
And considering most bludgeoning devices are of that nature, I'd go with just foam padding and worry less about metal to distribute it. Thoug you will want something to help it. Trust me, a blunt force blow to the ribs in just a shirt of mail(and likely mesh) hurts to hades and back a few times.
|
|
|
Post by lamebmx on Jan 15, 2012 20:05:15 GMT
hmmm i was hoping my previous post would read more like "a plate of something backed with foam" "chainmail over foam for the joints" sure a hit to the joints will hurt, buutttt you will still be able to move the joints.
|
|
jhart06
Member
Slowly coming back from the depths...
Posts: 3,292
|
Post by jhart06 on Jan 15, 2012 20:28:11 GMT
Errr... I'm not sure you would... Joints are weak spots as to fully protect them in armor kills their motion and speed, and the opposite makes them weak... Best solution I can come up with is a stiff, flexible foam with ring mesh and such over top sewn between some sort of tough fabric. You start insertin steel plates in modern day fighting hand to hand and you'll slow down and loose so much motion you're done for. And the weight is an issue. And if it does fail. You have not only have the attacker and weapon causing injury, the plate will be crumpled in and possibly rupture. And, I can affirm that is a level of hurt I've scarce experienced elsewhere.
|
|
|
Post by ineffableone on Feb 11, 2012 2:17:28 GMT
Good old punk rock trick, pyramid studs on leather. When you cover an area full of these, especially if you stagger the rows, it becomes cut and stab "resistant". I say resistant rather than proof due to the way it stops stabs. When you stab into the pyramid studs the blade is trapped in between two sets of studs and pinched. More pressure thrusting in more the blade is pinched. The tip of the blade might get through a bit, maybe max 1/4 inch if your stud placement is loose. Usually it is less than even 1/16th inch getting in. Sure you might get a bit of a scratch but better than dead. While not a technological wonder, this is a cheap DIY way to make some armor against stabs and cuts. And yes I have had this tested on me and it does work, and have had others who has had same experiences, it really does work.
|
|
|
Post by Vincent Dolan on Feb 11, 2012 2:26:21 GMT
That's actually pretty ingenious, Ineff. Sure, it may look a little tacky to wear a suit covered in these, but people would think you're just a hardcore goth/punk or have some really weird tastes in fashion; they wouldn't think you're actually wearing armor. I imagine it'd also be lighter than traditional armor, as well. Very neat.
|
|
|
Post by ineffableone on Feb 11, 2012 2:48:38 GMT
Yep, take a look at some of the punk rock jackets with a lot of pyramid studs some time. You will often see that they are in strategic locations covering vulnerable areas. You see often the kidneys, heart etc covered, and sometimes the entire back pannel. And yes relatively light weight. Most pyramid studs are a hollow form, thus pretty light for the size.
|
|
|
Post by ineffableone on Feb 11, 2012 3:12:53 GMT
Here is an example of fully covered vest style Though I think that is a denim jacket instead of leather. You can see the seams are left unstudded.
|
|
|
Post by lamebmx on Feb 11, 2012 3:36:30 GMT
Add some spikes here and there to help should someone try and grab you!
That is some good alternative thinking though. It would be really cut resistant. Even if you lined the cut up perfect, you still have to cut through leather, plus the ping factor as you pointed out. I still think the T10 katana I tested out would make it through pretty easy though, it made it through a steel plate pretty easy. plus leather would be less stuffy than plate and gambeson or whatever its called.
|
|
|
Post by Vincent Dolan on Feb 11, 2012 3:47:19 GMT
Good thing we don't live in Kill Bill-land where people can carry a katana everywhere then! :lol:
|
|
|
Post by ineffableone on Feb 11, 2012 4:08:27 GMT
I never tested this with a sword but with a knife. The pinching effect that enables these studs to effect a blade is very different than the effect plate armor has. I am not sure if it would stop a sword, but I think it would be an interesting experiment. My guess is a sword might make it in a little further than a knife, but still be stopped. Maybe 1/2 inch instead of 1/16th to 1/4 inch. That is only a guess though. It might fail and the sword might go right through.
As I mentioned it is not the metal preventing the stabbing but the pinching of the blade when it is stabbing. Tighter you line up the studs more effective it is. The studs channel, direct, the blade to the seam between the studs then pinch the blade between the studs effectively stopping the blade from piercing far.
Is this fool proof, no not at all. As with any multi part system of protection there is always a chance of a weak spot. It is however a cheap DIY way to get some stab proof armor. Leather is preferable to denim btw. For the obvious reason studs in denim have a greater likelyhood of ripping free than in leather.
|
|
jhart06
Member
Slowly coming back from the depths...
Posts: 3,292
|
Post by jhart06 on Feb 11, 2012 5:00:22 GMT
Push tab pyramid studs as armor? :shock:
Stab, twist as you do, slip the edge in, push, then yank out. Watch studs rip free. I used these frequently when I made belts to market a quick cheapie to the punk and metal crowds (and I say that appreciating both sub cultures, and belonging to the latter really). They look great, but they are able to be yanked out with the un-aided average humna hand. A properly leveraged blade would be carnage to them.
I won't argue and say reported results are false.. But i'm very, very dubious that a quality made knife engineered for stabbing (double edged 'assault' variant as my friend called it) wouldn't just make mince meat of these studs. I've routinely sliced through them when trimming leather they were attached to. Granted, not a full cut through, but enough of a bite into them i'm not so sure they'd work the greatest as armor.
|
|
|
Post by ineffableone on Feb 11, 2012 6:02:00 GMT
The knife I tested mine with was a Kershaw dive knife Not sure what the ones my friends were tested with since the way they were tested was in fights and a person trying to stab them. Not really a time to stop and ask what sort of knife your being stabbed with. As for yanking them out, rather hard to do when there is a whole section filled with them. Also as I said it is best to have them staggered. It is not inherent strength of the metal that stops the blade, once again. It is the pinching action that happens when the blade is deflected down to the seams between the studs. Being on a flexible platform the studs fold over around the blade pinching it and holding it thus preventing it from going in. As mentioned I am not sure how it would do against a sword, nor did I say it is fool proof. A lot depends on your ability to make tight well fitted rows with little to no gaps. Also the strength of the leather and quality of the studs themselves matter. I have seen cheap light weight studs and more sturdy robust studs. Some the metal tabs that hold are weak others have stronger tabs. On all my leather jackets I used well made strong studs that I bought in bulk.
|
|
|
Post by lamebmx on Feb 11, 2012 14:47:52 GMT
would make for an interesting super slow mo video! seeing how the force gets transfered to stretching a larger area of leather. makes you wonder if you could get a coat 2 sizes to big and boil it down to your size for an extra thick and hard base. then stud it up.
perfect zombie apocalype armour though. wearable and teeth cant get through it!
|
|
pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
|
Post by pgandy on Feb 24, 2014 4:32:40 GMT
For you guys considering ring mesh you might want to take a look at this. This is 150 ring mesh back by 8 plies of a tea towel to simulate a gambeson. Condor’s Engineer Bolo Machete went through all cutting the board with no effort. Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by jlwilliams on Feb 24, 2014 6:40:49 GMT
There are some body armor options out there meant to protect from knife attacks. In Japan they have something called a "boha" vest (IIRC) that bouncers and cops sometimes wear. While organized criminals have guns, there aren't a lot of guns in wide circulation. Thus the demand for knife resistant armor.(body armor that doesn't stop pistols is worthless in America) Likewise, I saw some British knife resistant body armor for sale in a surplus catalog not too long ago. The general idea is a vest to protect your giblets. Arm guards under the clothes are also common enough because your arms and wrists come closest to the other guy. Guys in jail use magazines and tape around their torso and forearms with varying degrees of success. You also see Kevlar reinforced gloves. Thin, dress gloves that protect from sharps. A must have item for cops who don't want to Terry-frisk their hand onto a hypodermic.
"Stab proof" is a tough goal, but it's entirely practical to armor up a few key spots. Remember, the armor doesn't defeat the attacker, it buys the wearer a moment to open his jar of whoop-ass.
I had thought about a related idea, but a little different. My idea was to make combat shirts with sleeves made out of the material they make cut resistant gloves out of. The kind of gloves used by people who fillet fish on a commercial scale. You can buy them at kitchen goods stores. Anyway, 'combat shirts' are meant to be worn under body armor. The torso area is breathable with rugged cloth sleeves, sometimes a pocket or insignia area on the sleeve too. My thinking is that cut resistant fabric sleeves would reduce the number of injuries to the extremities caused by jagged metal etc. Breathable cloth under the real body armor, and cut resistant cloth sleeves. It wouldn't keep an arm from being blown off, but it would reduce the numbers of small injuries treated in the field, many of which take men out of action for some time to get a few stitches.
You could extrapolate that thinking to make vests or shirts entirely out of the cut resistant mesh fabric. Kind of a bouncer's sweater. It wouldn't stop a determined stab, but it would stop the vast majority of the type of knife wounds treated in emergency rooms every night of the year.
|
|
|
Post by jlwilliams on Feb 24, 2014 6:41:48 GMT
|
|
ghost
Member
Posts: 1,318
|
Post by ghost on Feb 24, 2014 10:12:17 GMT
Probably be very very pricey like the ones used by crime fighting "superheroes" walking around.
I'd probably think a thick layer of modern polymer/plastics are mighty hard to penetrate with knives and lighter than a heavy plate carrier.
this was a little disconcerting:
|
|
|
Post by Onimusha on Feb 24, 2014 12:25:28 GMT
Stab-proof vests are worn by prison guards. Police wear bullet proof vests because they're much more likely to get shot at. To my knowledge, nobody makes a do-all armor.
|
|