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Post by joeydac on Aug 16, 2011 17:42:15 GMT
i thought albion sold the rights to marto after jody samson died
all i know is a sword is a product and like any product if you have to make it affordable for the masses to buy or you just wont make any money off of it and i just dont see anyone lining up to buy a 3300 albion or a 700 dollar marto so maybe they sold off parts of the franchise im sure windlass has to pay some type of royalties to albion or marto in order to sell these swords its like the braveheart swords as far as i know the marto version is the nly licensed version yet windlass claims they have a licensed one too its puzzling and bad for the collectors all in all i think its a good thing i myself will be buying one after a review just so i know they aint whippy
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Post by Alexander on Aug 16, 2011 18:10:40 GMT
Not having any direct contact with anyone at Albion just reading a lot of whats been said about the swords at Albion. From what I gather Albion went through a lot of effort in order to get the swords as true as possible to the screen used swords and in so doing spent a lot of money on research and equipment. Even getting the same engraving company and using the same templates for the electro-engraving ( forget the proper term) that were used for the film swords. I dont know if Albion had or thought they had some exclusivity to the rights but after all that Marto swoops in and also gets a license and begins making cheap knock offs. Could you direct me to where it says this. In all its moot anyway Jeffrey's are better then all of them  |
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Post by joeydac on Aug 16, 2011 18:57:23 GMT
jody samson was the one who designed the original swords for the movie and as far as i recall the rights to the swords were owned by the production company i was aware marto bought them after he died in terms of the tang look at the site at the pommel on valerias sword there is no evidence of a peen i might be wrong but as far as i know they have threaded tangs i think we have to bear in mind the original swords were made in stainless steel as and were not to be used as real weapons due to the weight il do more research into it
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Post by joeydac on Aug 16, 2011 19:15:22 GMT
ok just spoke to albion there threaded and epoxied no peening done due to the pommel design albion used a compression style threaded tang pre 2001 on there swords they have since switched to peening the
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Post by MEversbergII on Aug 17, 2011 1:32:59 GMT
Hm, I was hoping the Mother's sword and the dagger they used to kill that snake would have been in there.
M.
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Post by chuckinohio on Aug 17, 2011 13:39:17 GMT
That shot was dead center in the X ring.
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Post by joeydac on Aug 17, 2011 13:41:48 GMT
no but you can get the mothers sword for a good price at scorpion swords and the serpent dagger at kultofathena in the Mar to version its stainless but it should be OK its not a functional dagger
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Post by brotherbanzai on Aug 17, 2011 17:40:48 GMT
Nope, Tinker uses a recessed pommel nut with the tang keyed to the pommel which is not at all the same as a threaded pommel. It's similar in the way that a Corvette engine is like Chevette engine since they are both internal combustion. If you were interested in sports cars, you might like to be aware of the diference. Similarly, if a person is interested in owning, collecting, or talking about swords, it might be beneficial to know how they are constructed. If interested, here is a link to a thread from the old forum where the different pommel attachment methods are explained and why it makes a significant difference sbgswordforum.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=10822I just think it's a shame that in their attempt to bring the Conan swords to the masses who can't afford an Albion, it appears that they are using a copy of a copy for the hilt parts rather than trying to get closer to the original. Seems like once you've spent 10 grand on licensing rights, it wouldn't be such a big deal to pay to have some better parts made. Who knows, maybe the magazine pictures aren't representative of what the production pieces will look like.   Oh, and thanks Alexander and chuckinohio |
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Post by joeydac on Aug 17, 2011 23:38:11 GMT
why do i get into these debates i dont know at the end of a tinker tang its a threaded rod its not peened its not a rat-tail its a full tang going into a threaded rod that screws into a threaded nut that is recessed into the pommel therefore if you overtighten it you will strip out the nut not the pommel its still a threaded tang design the pommel just ismy threaded the hex capped nut is as for the windlass conan swords im very happy there coming out with them i myself will be buying one of them as i cant justify spending 3300 dollars on a 8lb sword that most likely will be a wallhanger or be put in a case if you have that kind of money to burn go right ahead and buy one while your at it be a sweel guy and get me one to just to make a point i brought up the innacuracies in the darksword kurgan sword and i got beat up i think the windlass version is very nice and very close to the original and am very happy they decided to stay as close to the design as possible with the dollar amounts reasonable and to bring up corvettes the 88 corvette and the 88 gta trans am had same motor but had different body styles same L98 engine just tweaked designs look it up  and i quote from the review section: The blade tang is thick and sturdy. The method of assembly utilizes a threaded tang and hollow tubular nut which fits completely inside the pommel. An added feature is that the guard has bee peened to fit very tightly to the tang when fully seated. It makes for a very sturdy, rattle-free hilt assembly.:end quote |
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Post by brotherbanzai on Aug 18, 2011 0:12:30 GMT
You’re not in a debate, you’re just repeatedly mislabeling a makers work (Tinker) and I’m repeatedly trying to give you the correct information so that you and any others who happen to read this thread aren’t misinformed.
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Post by joeydac on Aug 18, 2011 2:36:57 GMT
let me ask you something if the tang nut fails what will the pommel do it will fall off am i correct it is a compression style fitting just like a threaded pommel it is a better design because you can replace the nut if it fails but it is still a compression style fitting if you look at the tangs on albions they are peened at the top and have a pin through the handle like a katana peening at the pommel isnt always the best if the handle is to hollow and the rule applies with the tinker style threaded tang compression fitting the best way to secure the tang is to pin the tang to the handle and to the pommel like albion does like scorpion swords does that style will not fail thats why dsa used to hot thread there tangs to the pommel and albion and hanwei epoxies there threads to the pommel
look im not saying its a bad design im just saying at its basic level its a threaded pommel unless you can prove to me otherwise
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Post by chuckinohio on Aug 18, 2011 12:25:26 GMT
The difference is the Tinker or Atrim pommel attachment method involves the pommel being KEYED to the tang and secured with a hex nut. The pommel does not screw on to the tang where the threaded rod section is the only thing supporting it.
The Tinker or Atrim pommel is supported by the full width of the tang where it is keyed to it before the transition to the threaded section. This method allows the pommel to be gripped while not stressing the threaded section.
With a straight screw on pommel, the threaded section supoorts the pommel on its own if the pommel is not recessed to accept a tenon on the end of the grip.
Many screw on pommels have failed, time and time again. I recall Zero instances of a Tinker or Atrim pommel failing.
There is your difference. The Tinker or Atrim pommel attachment method is NOT a threaded pommel at its basic level, you are thinking Windlass.
The examples of DSA or Hanwei pommels and their attempts to reinforce screw on pommels with whatever method is a non starter. I have broken both brands. I have never broken an Atrim or Tinker pommel off of a sword.
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Post by joeydac on Aug 18, 2011 13:40:58 GMT
ok chuck il take your word for it
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Post by brotherbanzai on Aug 18, 2011 14:03:33 GMT
Yep chuckinohio  We're all friends here joeydac and no one's attacking you, but preventing the spread of misinformation about swords is one of the primary uses of this forum. Check out the link I offered and you won't just have to take chuckinohio's word for it. For anything other than a thrusting only sword, a threaded pommel is a poor design as is a peen that is done on a round rod sticking through a round hole in a pommel (as some makers have done to turn their threaded pommels into "peened" pommels). A properly done peen (as Albion uses on almost all of their swords and which is the historically predominant way to attach a pommel) is keyed to the tang as is a Tinker recessed pommel nut design. |
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Post by chuckinohio on Aug 18, 2011 22:14:57 GMT
I didn't consider the tone of the conversation when I posted.
If I came across as acting like a Johnson, consider this a formal apology to you Joey.
Actually, there is a some relevant info in Joeys' argument on second thought. The Tinker/Atrim pommel attachment method is a mild compression fit. Albion does their grips after the pommel securement to avoid any compression of the grip.
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Post by joeydac on Aug 18, 2011 23:41:46 GMT
You don have to apologize chuck I need to look into the tinker design more I'm just not big on compression style fittings IV cracked some handles I the past with them
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Post by chuckinohio on Aug 19, 2011 12:27:04 GMT
Cool deal man, I didn't want you thinking that I was talking down to you. You do have a valid point with the compression of the grip thing. To me, and this is purely my experience, it seems like Tinker and Gus size the grip core so that it does get a little compression from the pommel to secure it from shifting about. The core is usually fit to the tang pretty tightly to eliminate any side to side, but play along the long axis is a possibility. With that in mind, one could get some swelling of the core in a high humidity environment, and get a bit ham handed tightening the recessed hex nut to secure the assembly and possibly split the end of the grip core. The above scenario has never happened to me so far on 10 Atrims and 3 Tinkers, but the possibility does exist. I would say that if done with an eye towards prudence, the recessed pommel nut is darn near as secure a method as exists at present that still affords one the opportunity to take the sword down. Who's going to see Conan this weekend? |
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Post by brotherbanzai on Aug 19, 2011 13:37:43 GMT
Though it is a much better design than a threaded pommel, I don't personally care for the peened pommel nut design myself if the rest of the hilt is held together by the compression fit, as is generally the case. I feel that each piece of the hilt should be securely fit to the tang by itself so that if the pommel should fail you don't end up with a helicopter of death. If this is joeydac's concern as well then we are in agreement on that point. My girfriend's friend is comming into town for the weekend and she wants to see the new Conan movie despite warnings from myself and my gf, so I guess we'll be going to see it after all  Oh well, it might be decent anyway. |
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Post by Elheru Aran on Aug 19, 2011 13:40:30 GMT
So I'm thinking about making a waster based on the Atlantean design, with the hilt/langet assembly made in a different colour wood than the rest. Hmmmm.... wonder if there would be anybody interested in something like that? I think it's probably safe to say it's fairly unique...
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Post by Alexander on Aug 19, 2011 13:47:21 GMT
JEFFREY NOOOOOO! You maybe scarred for life. Every time you look at a piece of steel you may never be able to get that horrible site out of your mind.  |
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Oh well, it might be decent anyway.
