SeanF
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Post by SeanF on Apr 4, 2011 2:59:04 GMT
OK, now the ball is rolling. I ran the numbers for a Microlam beam cut to the swords dimensions (think plywood on steroids) then coated with 1/16" steel. 20lbs, with no extra meat on the blade, or interior handle assembly. Which could be ok, microlam beams are so tough I can barely drive nails into them. (20-25lbs is the target weight, 30lbs is the ceiling) Then I was looking at various material strength/density charts and rubber came up as an option. It's strength/density isn't as good as wood, but it got me thinking. What if I made a hollow steel shell and then poured some sort of rigid polymer inside to harden? Oh my, more research to do.
EDIT: Got it. Foam for filling tires. You can actually buy types that are rated to fill tires of heavy duty mining equipment. Should serve my purposes.
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Greg
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Post by Greg on Apr 4, 2011 6:54:06 GMT
Oh, don't think coated with steal, that would be way to heavy. The "Curtain" I was talking about would come down an inch onto the wood, not the whole thing. If you were gonna have the 1/16" sheet metal come back the whole width of the blade, you'd be better just to weld it all as a hollow body.
But this is proving to be a lovely mental exercise.
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SeanF
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Post by SeanF on Apr 4, 2011 12:16:23 GMT
Then it comes down to the finishing. I don't have any visions of a beautiful display piece (ok, I do, but I have to be realistic about how much work I am willing to put into this) but I think making my sword not look like it is made of wood is probably a minimum standard for this project  Also having the interior wood sandwitched removes the need for most fasteners from the wood to the steel, and since these are a major weak point in the design. In which case I may be able to use something weaker like balsa. Which solves everything. And yes, hollow steel is the ideal. I just have to face the unfortunate fact it would fold in upon itself under it's own weight. I am also amenable to something like a steel blade and a aluminum casing around the rest of the sword. I'm not super picky, I just don't want it to look like wood when I am finished. It will be lovely physical exercise two once I get it done  |
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Post by zentesukenVII on Apr 5, 2011 2:27:02 GMT
Have you thought of cutting the dimensions in sheet metal so that once you weld/screw whatever them all together it could be any type of metal that can hold a relative edge i guess, shaped like a sword in layers to strengthen it....  |
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SeanF
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Post by SeanF on Apr 5, 2011 2:58:24 GMT
Come again?
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Post by zentesukenVII on Apr 5, 2011 4:20:17 GMT
Its hard to explain... Take metal sheets and cut them into the shape of the sword, getting wider as you go furthin into the middle of the blade, so once your bolt them all together they come together and the edge of the sword is taperd like an edge, the file it all down to even out the "staircase" of sheets. Widest piece of metal sheet in the center, as to be the main cutting edge, then two more moved a bit back form the center sheet, the so on and so fourth untill it is to your desired thickness....
If you dont have an idea of what I mean Think of this "I" as the blade looking at the top of the blade, tip pointing right at you, edge angled upwards...
the I would cut ^ that way, so you take sheets of steel and cut them to fit together like this IIIIIII untill the blade is thick enough to be a blade. I dont know if you get what im saying but I think this would make it exceptionally strong. The Maybe the edge sheets are heat treated to be harder....Its an idea...
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SeanF
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Post by SeanF on Apr 5, 2011 4:36:48 GMT
Ah, I see. I don't think that would work exactly as you describe it (weight), but it has gotten me thinking.
If you could be cutting large sections out of the progressing layers to reduce weight it might be possible. Like having a 1/4 inch piece of steel in for the center lamination (with massive chunks cut out of it) and successive swiss-cheesed aluminum layers attached on to the side of it. A lot of welding, but maybe practical. I'm going to have to make a whole armor of these just to test all of these different ideas. :lol:
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Greg
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Post by Greg on Apr 5, 2011 5:58:19 GMT
On the old forums there was a rather long thread on a sheet metal sword. It was deleted in it's entirety because it just wasn't safe.
But even if it were to be constructed this way, it would still be a solid piece of metal with no weight reduction.
I really need to get around to learning CAD or something to explain what I mean exactly. Ok, think of a warhammer and how it has the "sheet metal" "Curtains" that go down around the wood. They are riveted to the wood and they were used this way for centuries. Doing the buster sword this way would basically be the same thing, but the curtain would only come back 2 inches and the rest of the blade would be wood.
The curtain would hold on a triangular (when viewed from top down) section of metal which would be the actual cutting portion of the blade. Then, as you get closer to the "guard" then the curtain would start being drawn back more and more, like in my previous picture, and the same spacing would be kept with the rivets, but just turn them into a grid pattern.
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Apr 5, 2011 12:58:10 GMT
just to let you know about the whole weight thing, this guys sword was 45 pounds...i see this as your future trying to weild that thing notice the blades so wide he cant help but have bad allighnment and "smack" with the side of the blade rather than cut, i thik if you took his specs and took off 2 inches all the way around youd have a wieldable weapon |
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Post by zentesukenVII on Apr 5, 2011 16:40:19 GMT
Well it COULD be possible to weild if you used certain metal for each part, hardend steel for this center, and work your way out getting softer and softer......And if you dud take out alot of the metal form the sheets, who cares its inside the sword, you wouldent see it... just make sure the outer two sheets are light and solid. (or have holes, might look kinda cool) made a full size to scale of the picture you linked in the beggining wooden version and it was pretty cool, not a good sword, more of a sheild and a battering ram!
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Post by mikejapan on Apr 5, 2011 22:45:21 GMT
Just throwing this out for fun. Watch the whole thing alright! I could "probably" handle the blade but he made it too large actually. It should be around my height: 5'8 ... re=relatedMikejapan |
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SeanF
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Post by SeanF on Apr 5, 2011 23:41:44 GMT
At 20lbs I will be able to hold it out completely horrizontaly at shoulder height, I can't quite say that about 45 lbs Just about every single design I have come up with ends up with the leading edge weighing significantly more than the backside, the opposite of the solid aluminum sword. So though I can't say having it roll on a cut won't be a problem, it will be less of one. And I'm not changing the dimensions to make it a more reasonably sized sword. If I wanted to compromise I would just use a reasonable sword to begin with. :lol: The dimensions I scaled off the official character art have it with a 4'6" blade, 5'10" overall. Only thing I am tinkering with is the thickness. It's a shame an aluminum blade would blow, otherwise this would be so easy. The fundamental problem is you can't really weld different metals together. Otherwise this would be quite the elegant solution. (Another huge side effect of this is you can make the handle an extension of the inner steel material for strength, and making materia slots is a piece of cake.) Thanks for all the ideas guys, keep em coming! I thought I had it almost figured out when I started this, but now I have so much more to think about |
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Apr 6, 2011 1:20:44 GMT
i guess theres just some swords out there in anime that cant be made practical without modifying...did you see the video of the 11 foot masamune?.....Lol
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ghost
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Post by ghost on Apr 6, 2011 1:25:57 GMT
 You mean like the Norimitsu Temple Sword that Midori posted up? :? ............ :arrow: .................  |
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Post by Neil G. on Apr 6, 2011 13:25:06 GMT
Speaking of ridiculously big swords - here is a Panzerstecher (literal translation from German would be "Armor Stabber") made by Arma Bohemia in the Czech Republic. I don't think they make it anymore - it's not in their regular lineup anyway, but it used to be in their catalogue. I guess it's some sort of oversized Estoc type situation, but it's pretty damn impressive looking - not sure about the stats on it, but I don't imagine it to be too light.
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Post by drdata on Apr 6, 2011 15:14:32 GMT
Crazy. I can only hope if I am ever in a sword dual that my opponent owns a buster sword. I am working a 20" wak that has forced me to scale up the forge/quench. Can't image trying to heat treat such a beast. Regards |
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Post by zentesukenVII on Apr 6, 2011 17:12:36 GMT
Once somone can actually make a functional sephiroth masamune I will be the first to buy it. If youve seen advent children you know cloud uses alot of swords that come apart and form into smaller swords...........idea maybe? The one on amazon is pretty cool. Might be easier to make, and you could heat treat it.
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Also having the interior wood sandwitched removes the need for most fasteners from the wood to the steel, and since these are a major weak point in the design. In which case I may be able to use something weaker like balsa. Which solves everything.
