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Post by zentesukenVII on Apr 1, 2011 22:51:58 GMT
Yeah I was wondering the same thing. If you could just have it as the same piece of steel as the blade looks like your best bet. These kind of things require so much trial and error. Its so annoying. I personally would say the materia slots woulda actually really effect the strenght of the blade, standing upright on a scale point up would be heavy enough, and enough stress on the area near the handle. But outstretched and being held, swun and actually HITTING the target to cut it would add more shock and those slots would make it alot weaker. i definatly am agianst the edge being aluminum. Softer steel on the spine, harder at the edge. the aluminum would be best on the back.
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SeanF
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Post by SeanF on Apr 2, 2011 1:29:09 GMT
:roll: Regardless of what happens whatever I get out of this is sure to be more use than what I would get out of a Final Fantasy forum.
I don't have a solid answer for that one yet. The obvious solution is some manner of extending some of the internal aluminum tubing down to run into/become part of the handle. It would be easy enough to cut some slits into a very thick walled piece of round aluminum so it sleeves into the swords internal structure, but then how do I get at it to weld it? Or I cut slits in the aluminum internal structure so I can wedge the tube in tight and weld it in to both sides, making the aluminum have close to the same strength it did before I cut the notches into it.
That sounds needlessly convoluted. :?
When you upload the attachment there is a 'place inline' button, which will give you the code to place it into your post.
[attachment=0]Buster.JPG[/attachment]
I'm sure there is some sort of paramater I could be adding to the code to change the size, but I usually try and avoid using a guess and check aproach for figuring out syntax. :mrgreen:
As for materia slots, I am kind of ignoring them for version 1.0. If I get this thing off the ground and working I'll probably just paint them on and start working on incorporating them structurally for version 2.0.
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Sam H
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Post by Sam H on Apr 2, 2011 15:11:20 GMT
Soooo....
All this talk of a buster style sword being made etc. is an interesting way to waste time.
Anyway I've got a few questions to ask:
1. Have you done any welding before? Welding aluminum to aluminum is fairly difficult.
2. Speaking of welding - welding steel to aluminum is VERY difficult and not for a beginner due to the different melting points of the two metals. Steel melts at over twice the temperature of aluminum's melting point.
3. With all the welding how do you go about with heat treating the edge? Heat treat it before welding it to the aluminum and the welding process will ruin your heat treatment. Heat treat it after welding it to aluminum and you'll melt the aluminum parts during the hardening process for the edge.
4. The width of the blade carries some serious concern in my mind. With the blade being so wide cutting with it would be very difficult, especially with such a skinny hilt. Torque and friction are your worst enemies in cutting and this blade would cause a ton of torque and friction. How do you intend to combat that?
5. Ok so you're other hobby is weight lifting. Ever pick up a curl bar (about 18~20 lbs. not loaded with weights of course) and try swinging that thing around with enough speed to cut something if it were a sword? Got any control at all with it or would you break something/someone nearby?
Just some things to consider.
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SeanF
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Post by SeanF on Apr 2, 2011 15:39:12 GMT
All excellent points to consider. 1) Not a chance I am actually going to try and do this myself. I have people who know what they are doing lined up for that  2) That is the major design problem, one of the only reasons aluminum edge was still on the table. I know you can get pieces of pre-welded aluminum & steel and then weld your component parts on to that. That or thread the blade section and have it bolted through into the sword frame, thought that seems somewhat... questionable. 3) Heat treating is something to worry about in model 2.0 or higher. If I put the sword together and it can survive it's own weight I call it a success for the first try. I wonder if you could quench->weld->temper and have the heat from the welding act as part of the tempering? You would still need to temper, but if you took the weld heat into account in the process I think you could make something marginally successful. Assuming you had the requisite knowledge to do so. (which I do not) 4) I don't. Whatever it can cut it can cut. No mater what you do it isn't going to be useful as a sword, I just want to have fun trying. One thing to note is that my design has the leading edge weighing considerably more than the backside, so that should lessen the blades inclination to roll to the side upon impact. As my outside dimensions are fixed the only things I can really tinker with are weight (by changing the interior structure) and thickness (which I couldn't find a decent measurement for, so I am just going by structural considerations). 5) Define control Not enough to be defined as 'control', but enough to not be dangerous. Besides, like any sword I won't have anyone close to me when using it. One of the core exercises I do is to take my 50lb punching bag outside and swing it around by the chains. I don't imagine this could be all that much different. Thanks for the input. |
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Post by sam salvati on Apr 2, 2011 16:37:23 GMT
Then it doesn't belong in the swordmaking section, it belongs wherever slo discussions belong....fantasy or cafe?
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Apr 2, 2011 17:07:19 GMT
He's crotchety and grumbles alot... but I gotta admit, I tend to agree with him... I can not stand these giant, stupid, physically unweildable Video Game/Anime "weapons"... they make my throw up in my mouth a little. :? Alas... I am noticing more and more these days that what I like and don't like seem to be further and further from the populace here tho... 
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Apr 2, 2011 17:25:18 GMT
its one thing when a fantasy sword is perfectly weildable as a REAL sword. its quite another when talking about making a functional 12 foot long katana with perfect balance. if you want a realistic fantasy sword scale the thing down to standard specs, lets say 35 inch blade, 4 inches wide, while still a huge sword, it would be pretty wield able at these specs if given proper taper and a thin blade, think H/T swords thin. and would be recognized by everyone as the buster sword except the 12 year olds on youtube who like to post stuff like "THATS NOT BUSTER SWORD BUSTER SWORD IS 6 FEET LONG AND 2 FEET WiDE AND WEIGHS APPROX 165.3 LBS semprini!" (yes i have seen posts like this, especially on swords meant to represent sephiroths sword) my masamune is a 36 inch blade with a 12 inch handle, very easy to wield, can be done 1 handed, and everyone who sees it is like OMGZ SEPHIROtHS SWORD!
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Sam H
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Post by Sam H on Apr 2, 2011 17:44:41 GMT
The point I was trying to make was that you're trying to make something which would be unwieldable and for that matter difficult if not impossible to make in any usable way.
Yes you can purchase slats of steel and aluminum welded together - however you'd still have to weld that onto the body of the blade. Heat treating the steel edge of the sword requires heating it to temperatures that would melt the aluminum. Heat treating the edge prior to welding would be rendered useless since the temperatures required to weld the steel to aluminum would render ANY heat treating worthless considering you have to bring the steel to melting temperature at those welds which convey a lot of heat to the rest of the steel and then that cools normally - thus annealing and perhaps normalizing the edge. Heat treating is wasted. As for controlling the blade well - you are only theorizing and for that matter theorizing based on what I will assume is a very limited foundation of actual cutting experience. Oh and about swinging 50lb heavy bags being similar to swinging a blade that weighs 20-40lbs. Its nothing like it. Try swinging a curl bar or better yet a barbell (around 45lbs if I'm not mistaken) and stop that swing. If you don't understand what I mean by control then you need a lot more practice with a bokken or even just a broom handle before you start thinking about designing swords.
Anyway I was trying to be nice at first. Now I'm just going to be blunt like Sam. This doesn't belong in the sword making part of the forum. For that matter discussions like this make me ill. My first post was just to nicely tell you this was ridiculous and a waste of time. Now I'm just being blunt. Anyway I tire of this so I'm done here. Enjoy your theorizing and if you DO actually end up wasting money on this - at least its not my money and thanks for helping to stimulate the economy a little.
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SeanF
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Post by SeanF on Apr 2, 2011 19:28:32 GMT
I have much more to say, but I will simply apologize for wasting all of your time and refrain from further discussion on the topic.
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Post by sam salvati on Apr 3, 2011 0:26:10 GMT
There's nothing wrong with wanting to make an slo, many do and that's fine but don't claim otherwise. Your idea however would be highly impractical and not function, or function only for a short time. steel sheathing over a tubing core, you wouldn't get much sharpening out of it before you ground or thinned the sheathing too weak. The closest I think anyone's come to a functional version was BKS, they also did a very good bleach sword.
Feel free to keep your thread going!! when the mods get off they're lazy rears and get in gear to move it to it's proper place.
Have heart, yours is probably one of the best I have seen to keep the blade light but 1/4" plate in those dimensions would be too heavy. I'm not about censorship, just proper thread placement.
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avery
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Manufacturer/Vendor
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Post by avery on Apr 3, 2011 1:26:01 GMT
It helps if us mods are made aware; that "report" button is still located the same place it always has been.
Moved to the fantasy section, and as Sam said, feel free to continue the discussion in the appropriate place.
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Apr 3, 2011 2:27:45 GMT
yeah the mods cant read EVERY POST...sheesh
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Post by sam salvati on Apr 3, 2011 3:10:23 GMT
It's not my fault they spread themselves too thin  . global moderators IMO never worked well, too much ground to cover, why when I was a mod I kept a tight forum, in my own section of course. I'd gladly volunteer but I feel it would go unheeded hehe. LOL you guys do OK |
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Greg
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Post by Greg on Apr 3, 2011 4:59:15 GMT
Ye may want to contact brotherbanzai, I seem to recall him having some experience in this sort of work...  Full thread: viewtopic.php?f=43&t=2227 |
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Apr 3, 2011 11:51:05 GMT
omg! that thing is hugeeee! HAX!
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Post by Elheru Aran on Apr 3, 2011 20:58:59 GMT
Honestly, I think something along the lines of the concept MOK came up with would really work best. Get a slab of 3/16" steel and with a good bit of hammer work, put in a F-off huge fuller, a loooooooong distal taper, and a long thin edge taper, and it'd be workable. Now, after heat-treat, it might be kind of fragile, honestly, but it wouldn't be more than 8-10 lbs (just guesstimating here) and be a decent enough cutter. You wouldn't be able to cut much with it, but that wouldn't be the sword's fault... it'd be yours  And yes, BrotherBanzai plus Baltimore Knife and Sword both have done fantasy blades. Check them out. I will note that BB's anime sword there has an, IIRC, aluminum blade so it's pretty much nonfunctional-- you *can* put an edge on aluminum, but once you hit something it'll go away because the metal is just that soft. |
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Greg
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Post by Greg on Apr 4, 2011 0:19:38 GMT
Ok, I must have missed the part about this being functional... So, with that in mind
Build it like a katana, except instead of having a soft core spine, have it be made of wood, then build the edge like any other sword and allow for two curtains to be drawn around the wood. You'll have a big ass sword, which doesn't weigh a metric ton, and you could still cut with it, assuming you are just that crazy.
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SeanF
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Post by SeanF on Apr 4, 2011 1:38:58 GMT
Don't worry, I am exactly that crazy.
Good call on the wood. I was kicking around doing something like that with carbon fiber, but wood would be oh so much easier. You think using wood would have come to me easier, being a carpenter and all....
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Greg
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Post by Greg on Apr 4, 2011 1:47:23 GMT
LoL! The camera pans across various sorts of woodworking equipment and piles and piles of boards to Velo who is sitting at his work bench, late one night, with piles of paper in front of him. "If ONLY there was a material out there which was lightweight, flexible, and perhaps made of strands so that it could bend but not break. It HAS to be out there somewhere..." But you'd want to have the tang and shoulders made from the same peice of material as the blade. I'll go sketch something ou in paint real quick and repost it. |
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Greg
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Post by Greg on Apr 4, 2011 2:10:34 GMT
 I forget how small the paint files are, but you can get the idea. The red area should be metal, around a 53 hardness. I'd suggest welding on some 1/8" plating to the side before heat treat of course and just file it smooth. The reason I think you should flare the blade to the rest of the guard like I did is to distribute the weight of the blade along the hilt. Curves, not angles, are our friends. As far as the tang goes, you'd probably want the majority of it metal. Maybe even metal the entire diameter of the grip and just put some scales on the side, kinda how the windlass qama is put together. So with the above design, you should be able to cut back on the weight quite a bit. Then the wooden backing would be there for frontal support mainly. I'd also suggest you put in some rubber sleeves around the rivets in the blade. This should lessen the wood's tendancy to crack if you hit a target in a chopping motion rather then a slice. |
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. global moderators IMO never worked well, too much ground to cover, why when I was a mod I kept a tight forum, in my own section of course. I'd gladly volunteer but I feel it would go unheeded hehe. 
