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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2007 23:27:46 GMT
I saw the thread on the very nice wooden Naginata and thought I would post a link so a site that sells what I consider to be some of the best bokkens out there. They offer many different types of wood, and their pre made line is of the best quality I have seen. Prices are not bad either. bokkenshop.com/eng/deluxe.html
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2007 1:49:43 GMT
I am a big fan of the Japanese white oak. The Jo's I've had made of Chinese white oak don't seem to have the weight or density as the Japanese ones. Although basically the same tree, reading up on this I found it is not due to craftsmanship but the Japanese white oak is usually grown at a higher altitude, when the Chinese ones are grown at a lower altitude en masse. Due to the seasonal growing periods, the white oak at higher altitudes grows more densly and more slowly making it a little more expensive but worth the extra in my opinion.
Nice one for the link kensei, do you practice any form of martial or other esoteric art mate ?
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Post by randomnobody on Aug 22, 2007 1:58:29 GMT
I've been in the market for some new bokken for a while now, but can't seem to decide on wood type. I guess for my purposes the old reliable oak would be a good bet, and this site's look nice. They're pretty reasonably priced, too. 3,000 yen seems like a bit much to me at first, but then I realize that $25 is what I paid apiece for my last two, and 3,000 yen isn't much more, so I think I've found my next set. (re: yen vs US dollar; due to my other hobby, collecting anime merchandise and memorabilia, I deal with Japan-based companies fairly often, and am ever-mindful of the conversion rate, so thinking in Yen is pretty normal for me, and the rate changes so often that I don't generally bother with making note of today's USD value, as it likely won't be tomorrow's)
Thanks for the link.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2007 2:21:02 GMT
Actually their better white oak bokken is 3,750, or about 32 dollars american. I have used their bokkens for quite some time, and the best is the deluxe white oak for 3,700 yen. They have some exotic woods as well, but some of these bokens cost 12,000 plus yen, so I avoid them generally. This site really has the best bokkens on the net, and they can even take special orders.
Also, if the yen to dollar sounds confusing, just use the converter that is on the far left on the sites homepage, will tell you in dollars the actual cost, or in any world currency, and there a re a lot to chose from. I've used these folks for many years, not problem. Their Bokens sellf for double in martial arts supply stores I have visited, with their deluxe white oak averaging 70 in some I have been to.
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Post by randomnobody on Aug 22, 2007 2:26:21 GMT
I looked into the exotic woods, and short of their being exotic, couldn't find any real benefit to them versus the oak. The last set I bought were of red oak, painted black, so I think this time I'll go with white oak. Even 3,750 yen is a good deal for these. Considering I regularly spend an average 5,000 yen on PVC figures that sit on my shelf and take up space, I think 7,500 yen for two (I'll need a second, I do enjoy dueling friends) quality bokken would be much better spent.
I thought about picking up one of their yari, but then I realized that for a piece of wood that kind of looks like a yari, I can buy...a yari. I gave up on that idea pretty quickly.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2007 3:25:36 GMT
I looked into the exotic woods, and short of their being exotic, couldn't find any real benefit to them versus the oak. White oak is extremely beneficial because it does not splinter. We are encouraged to get white oak as there is alot of weapon to weapon contact in my koryu.
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Post by randomnobody on Aug 22, 2007 3:38:00 GMT
Sounds good to me. Thanks guys.
Now to compile the funds.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2007 5:41:54 GMT
Yes the white oak is the best choice, though to say it does not splinter is a bit of an overstatement. Eventually it will, but it will take quite a bit longer to happen, no question about that. Best thing is to oil it often, or even keep the entire length og the blade in a tube filled with oil, this will make it last quite a bit longer.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2007 6:11:46 GMT
Yes the white oak is the best choice, though to say it does not splinter is a bit of an overstatement. Eventually it will, but it will take quite a bit longer to happen, no question about that. Best thing is to oil it often, or even keep the entire length og the blade in a tube filled with oil, this will make it last quite a bit longer. White oak compacts over time and good, dense white oak should never splinter. My sempai's Jo and bokken are about 50 years old, both white oak and three times a week I see him smash the living sh*t out out of them with no damage. They feel cold to touch, and are significantly heavier than my newer Jo and bokken even though mine has a wider diametre. If you train everyday, you never need oil them as the oils in your hands i.e. sweat ,does the job nicely. The only time I ever oil mine is after I give it a little sanding to get rid of the bumps and depressions.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2007 6:51:34 GMT
Thats actually not true at all, you really do need to oil them often, any boken maker will tell you this is necessaqry, and I agree. it may seem like he is smashing them, but I think the amount of force is negliable compared to what I see and deal with personally. Believe me, wood is not indestructable, everything breaks if enough force is applied. I would say that what you are talking about is the exception more then the rule. If your striking blows that deliver two to three thousand pounds per square inch, believe me, they will splinter and break eventaully, no matter how high a quality. Oh and the oils from your hands are not preservatives like tung oil and other such oils specificaly for that purpose.
Many woods will compact over time, some just better then others. I have seen cheap red oak break expensive white oak whos owner did not take good enough care. Believe me, light sanding with a high grit on ocassion, and bathing in oil, this will maintain it's life for the longest possible time.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2007 8:33:33 GMT
What JSA or other art is it that you practice kensei ? My methods have been passed down to me so have been tried and tested. I am refering to the splintering that may occur due to ill-timing with a bokken or contact with another weapon i.e. wooden jitte, so in that respect it may of seemed to you the exception, however it is my rule. I think you and I see a training weapon's life as a different span, this is why I wish to understand your training regime so you can enlighten me of your learning . Was it I that said my hands oils are preservatives I don't wish to preserve my bokken, I wish to train with it . The oils only serve as a mild lubricant to make the weapon pass more easily through my hand. After I workout, I grab my Jo and bokken and wipe my sweaty palms, e.t.c up and down them and it has never failed me yet. Keeping it in a oiled bag would make it very slippery for immediate use, unless you were storing it away for a long time, but each to their own mate. I will agree that a little sanding and oiling is a good thing, but as I have been trained to do as I do, I do as I do . ;D
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2007 9:40:03 GMT
Chop chop who exactly passed down what to you? You dont have to answer of course, but your words go against common sense. I'll timing, it is wood, not steel, whether you are hitting it on the front or back, its woo. I was not speaking of dipping the whole bokken, simply the edge, not the grip, you should be doing too much grasping of the blade of the bokken, you would not grasp the blade of a sword after all. I keep mine preserved in tung oil, they last much longer, but even they break eventually. Your words sound made up, like someone who has never actually experienced what he was talking about. Like that guy in the 40 year old virgin that got found out cause he said breasts felt like bags of sand, Come on man. I don't know who passed down what to you and what was tried and tested, thats just ego nonsense talk, and honestly it doesn't matter to me who taught you what, that would be borrowed fame. You need to mention other people to back you up? I mean really, just speak for you, don't try and have a whole bunch of other people we don't know add validity to you. No mystical talk either. You hit it against something else, hit it hard enough, eventually it will break. If your blows are weak, it may not for a good while. Or maybe you have magic wood, that after 50 years at 3 hours a day has never broken. Come on man, what are you smoken, you gotta know somebody no matter how long you been here is gonna call you on that. Tried and true methods that perserve a bokken for 50 years at 3 hours a day of use sure sound like perserving a boken to me, not training with it. Oh unless you mean by training not actually make contact with other bokkens. If thats training, then indeed it will last 150 years, no need to oil it at all. Challenging me by starting a lineage talk is also nonsense, stick to the subject at hand, you definitely do not want to go there Now instead of getting personal, lets keept this about bokkens, and no more fantasy talk about 50 year old ones that have seen 300,000 hours of sparring and never broken, ok. Please don't continue this conversation chop chop, ok, lets get back to the subject at hand, ok.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2007 11:07:12 GMT
Chop chop who exactly passed down what to you? You dont have to answer of course, but your words go against common sense. I'll timing, it is wood, not steel, whether you are hitting it on the front or back, its woo. I was not speaking of dipping the whole bokken, simply the edge, not the grip, you should be doing too much grasping of the blade of the bokken, you would not grasp the blade of a sword after all. I keep mine preserved in tung oil, they last much longer, but even they break eventually. Your words sound made up, like someone who has never actually experienced what he was talking about. Like that guy in the 40 year old virgin that got found out cause he said breasts felt like bags of sand, Come on man. I don't know who passed down what to you and what was tried and tested, thats just ego nonsense talk, and honestly it doesn't matter to me who taught you what, that would be borrowed fame. You need to mention other people to back you up? I mean really, just speak for you, don't try and have a whole bunch of other people we don't know add validity to you. No mystical talk either. You hit it against something else, hit it hard enough, eventually it will break. If your blows are weak, it may not for a good while. Or maybe you have magic wood, that after 50 years at 3 hours a day has never broken. Come on man, what are you smoken, you gotta know somebody no matter how long you been here is gonna call you on that. Tried and true methods that perserve a bokken for 50 years at 3 hours a day of use sure sound like perserving a boken to me, not training with it. Oh unless you mean by training not actually make contact with other bokkens. If thats training, then indeed it will last 150 years, no need to oil it at all. Challenging me by starting a lineage talk is also nonsense, stick to the subject at hand, you definitely do not want to go there Now instead of getting personal, lets keept this about bokkens, and no more fantasy talk about 50 year old ones that have seen 300,000 hours of sparring and never broken, ok. Please don't continue this conversation chop chop, ok, lets get back to the subject at hand, ok. LOL, so I'll take that as a NO shall I ? The Jo I mentioned of my sempai's was given to him by his teacher, Nishioka Tsuneo. If you don't know who that is, here is a link. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nishioka_Tsuneo. Not all people look at bokkens the same way, Nishioka-sensei mainly reinforces the kihon-waza of which he does very ellegantly for a 83 y.o but slowly. We are of a younger age and train with an element of realism so strike harder, this means our Jos and bokkens don't stand the test of time that his do. This is why he can pass them on. Without giving my koryu-sensei's name my arguement sounds as empty as yours, so I will leave it there. I don't grasp blades much no, however I do grasp both ends of a Jo. How would you hold a Jo, kensei ? As I have been contributing to this forum for some time I feel most members know of my capabilities and training, if you were to read old threads you would know too. When you join us, you tell us nothing of who you are and your lack of contact training, then expect us to adhere to your empty threats. You just look the fool for being so defensive. If you had any form of training lineage, an honourable person would have given us the respect and let us all know by now what it is. Best you should get back to watching your 40 year old erectile dysfunction movies ! You might miss something important. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2007 12:08:41 GMT
That was not very polite, and I did not like how you asked. Training lineage, my Sensei was a student of the Hyoho Niten Ichi-ryu, as am I, and I trained with him for 10 years. When I joined the military I spent most of my time posted overseas. I lived in 8 different foreign countries, as well as a year posted in Japan, where I took the oppurtunity to train and teach. No, I was in no hurry to go into talking about my background, I still am not. I have always felt that people who feel some need to brag about themselves and their background are rather insecure. There is also something called Humility.
I am sure you want any excuse to go into detail about all you know, but some of us are more humble and discreet, and not so rude as yourself.
I was coming on to remove my post, I realized it was too harsh a response maybe. Now I see how you chose to respond, so I will leave it up.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2007 12:27:48 GMT
There we go mate, it's all good. I sincerely apologize if you were offended by my words but you are the newcomer and I wish to know who (as best with text) I am conversing with. Surely you can see my point, when you can read about everything I've ever posted here. I hate to say but it is only manners, as you would know by living in Asia especially. I totally respect your commitment and devotion, and you must understand I would never mock its essence. I was just trying to get a little wording from you that is all. My koryu is Shinto muso ryu, we have a kata that involves disarming a swordsman with two swords that is quite a famous one. Do you read much Japanese history at all ?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2007 12:35:35 GMT
What JSA or other art is it that you practice kensei ? !!!!I have now told you what I practice, but the way your question was asked was very arrogant, and meant to belittle and question my standing, very nice. My methods have been passed down to me so have been tried and tested. !!!!Your teachers were woodworkers and carpenters. Sorry, but the way you talk they would know everything about wood. Obviously they do not, because you have talked some magic fairyland nonsense in regards to it. I am refering to the splintering that may occur due to ill-timing with a bokken or contact with another weapon i.e. wooden jitte, !!!Splintering happens when wood hits something else, be it otrher wood or metal, it can happen to any wood, duh. Dont try and backpedal now, you already have quoted mystical wood that lasts 50 years of heavy sparring, and you said "whack the hell out of" you did not mention anything light. so in that respect it may of seemed to you the exception, however it is my rule. !!!What rule? Vague rule? Being vague is a rule? I think you and I see a training weapon's life as a different span, this is why I wish to understand your training regime so you can enlighten me of your learning . !!!You don't wish to be enlightened, just snobby, come on, its so obvious in your tone. Training life as a different span, it lasts as long as it lasts, duh. Was it I that said my hands oils are preservatives I don't wish to preserve my bokken, I wish to train with it . The oils only serve as a mild lubricant to make the weapon pass more easily through my hand. !!!!Huh, you wanna have a crappy grip. OK. Pass through your hands, LOL, pass out of them more likely. After I workout, I grab my Jo and bokken and wipe my sweaty palms, e.t.c up and down them and it has never failed me yet. !!!!Uh huh, well, good luck with that, I'm sure thats how your old pals wood lasted for 50 years of having the hell whacked out of it, lol. Personally I user a towel. Keeping it in a oiled bag would make it very slippery for immediate use, unless you were storing it away for a long time, but each to their own mate. I will agree that a little sanding and oiling is a good thing, but as I have been trained to do as I do, I do as I do . ;D !!!!!!The words of someone who can not think for themselves and is a slave to their style, yeah bravo mate I'd read your own words mate, I think you will see my little bit of editing has helped a lot. Oh, and how do you grip a sword? LOL
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2007 12:43:19 GMT
Enough to tell you that you are wasting your time studying Kata, and I'll say no more about that.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2007 12:44:03 GMT
Oh you are truely amazing kensei . How do you do this editing stuff ?
Please tell us more. It just shows more of your TRUE character doesn't it ?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2007 12:45:47 GMT
Nope, no more negativity, I bring it to an end and stop you also
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2007 13:04:40 GMT
Look I ain't perfect by a long shot, Rammstein can vouch for that. If you intend to be around it is nice to know everyone's forte, there is nothing wrong with that. People recommend others specific relevant information that way, it is what makes this a good forum. After all, you get what you put in right ?!
All is good mate, i didn't post to your introductory post so 'Welcome aboard ' ;D ;D ;D
(hence, you will notice the amount of smilies.)
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